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Need some help

 
coupe3w coupe3w
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/01/13
07:21 AM

My drivers side door hinge pillar was hit some time in it's life and I need ideas to fix this. When the door was on who ever fixed this cut the bottom of the door to make it fit. I believe the pillar was pulled out to far and is twisted. That is why they cut the door to fit.  

waynep71222 waynep71222
User | Posts: 155 | Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/01/13
09:03 AM

welcome to the forums..

i am taking by your user name that you have something like an early 30's ford 3 window coupe..

this is going to require a SKILLED body man...   not the average guy who pounds it almost flat. and slaps on some bondo...  probably closer to a frame man who works with unibody cars all the time..

a friend of mine who has passed away had a speciality shop here in la..  he only worked for insurance companies and did repairs after some shop spread or pulled it too far.. he was a genus with sheetmetal...   having a degree in metalurgy from MIT helped also.. you might need a shop with that kinds of skills...

you might also want to find somebody with a perfect body..  and spend some time doing measurements of the door openings .. hinge locations... angles...  distances between the left and right sides..  perhaps this already exists... i have not searched as i don't know what model you have...

there are a few forum members who are serious body men.. i will ask one to drop in.. if you can post some detailed pictures with the door shut.. the door open   what's bent..

use one of the image hosting sites.. like photobucket or imageshack to store your images. paste the image links here..  

coupe3w coupe3w
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/01/13
10:13 AM

Thanks for the reply. Yes I do have a '34 3 window coupe.
The problem is not with the 34 though. It's with my '67 Mustang. Here is a picture.
Doorhingepillar Zpsefeb0013  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Guru | Posts: 1050 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 01/01/13
10:52 AM

So .... what is your question? All we have so far are statements.

Looks like the photo is pointing out stamping irregularities that it may have left the factory with. I would knock off all the paint to find out whats going on there, if anything. Theres so much adjustment available at the lower hinge that it should be workable. You can make shims that cover the whole footprint of the hinge, nothing wrong with that. Ultimately, if the area is crushed and unacessible you can always cut out the damaged section, repair it and weld it back in! If you can post good pics (backside and front) with the paint removed from the front, I can make a suggestion. I do this for a living.  
idrivejunk

pepsi1 pepsi1
Enthusiast | Posts: 301 | Joined: 10/11
Posted: 01/01/13
06:05 PM

Go Get Em Matt.

"Happy New Year"

Bob  

waynep71222 waynep71222
User | Posts: 155 | Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/02/13
12:19 AM

a few more questions now that we can see some of the beginnings..


do you have BOTH Doors off????  can you check the angles of both..

next..

would be be easier to clean it completely... drill out the spot welds in the flange and with a horizontal slice.. remove the inside panel to access the back side of the door jam..  so it would be easier to weld back in and return to the proper finish..

may we have some more please... !!  pictures that is..

is there an opening on the inside to allow insertion of the threaded plate?? or nuts on the studs??? so getting at the back might just require some creative bending of some thick bar stock to make some sort of tool to drive it out from the back..

this is the kind of thing that takes experience to figure out how to fix it properly..

most of which needs to be thought of is which direction was the IMPACT IN... so you can drive the metal back the other direction..    if the impact came in at 90 degrees.. then you pull it out at 90 degrees... if it came in a 45 degrees then you drive it back out at 45 degrees...

IDJs skills in metal massage  far surpass mine 100 fold..

before you take out the hammers... since the fender is off...  REHANG the door properly.. see how much the distortion disrupts the normal operation of the door...   rehang both doors and compare...   be sure that the hinge pin bushings are in good shape or spend the time on bushing kits and refurb the hinges or replace them ... so you get an accurate shot at observing the operation..  

coupe3w coupe3w
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/02/13
06:10 PM

Well, my question is should I replace the damaged section with a repro part or try and straighten this piece? The part is definitely damaged, not stamping irregularities. I haven't had a chance to get the paint off yet, but I will this coming weekend. I don't know how the damage occurred, but looking at tonight, I think the door was open and the car was going backward and the door hit something, or it was hit "T-boned" in the door near the lower hinge. Here are some more pictures. Thanks for your help so far.
Cowlrepair114 Zps931cd966
Cowlrepair126 Zps45d5230c
Cowlrepair127 Zpsf285b4ec
Cowlrepair116 Zps9a3f233c  

coupe3w coupe3w
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/02/13
06:23 PM

I just have the driver side off. I bought a used door and I have to strip it down and then I will place it on the car to check it for fit. Thanks for the suggestion of checking the angles, that hadn't even crossed my mind. I know for sure that the post was pulled to far out because when I had the car repainted I had replaced the driver door and it stuck out about a 1/4" from the rocker panel. So the body shop at the time instead of pushing the post back into the correct position decided to cut and section the bottom of the door and weld it back together. The reason I replaced the original drivers door was because it had some body work done on the top inside (where your arm would rest) and there was no grain in the metal (if you know what '67  mustang doors look like they have grain in the stamping) and it looked like crap. That is the door that was on the car that caused all this mess.
I added some pictures and I can get more if needed. I hope you can understand what is going on here, that I explained it well enough.
I have had this car since High School and I just turned 60 so I want to get this fixed and fixed right. Thanks for you help so far.  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Guru | Posts: 1050 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 01/02/13
07:13 PM

Hey coupe, yeah now I have ideas for you. And thank you wayne for pitching in! I can see the trouble and its not too bad, just in a bad spot. Let me lay out a few options for AFTER you hang the replacement door and make adjustments then still have a problem ...

Looks like just a pry bar dent and this isn't the first Mustang I've seen hurt right there. Probably from the post-accident door adjustment. If they pulled the hinge plate out too far it looks like they beat it back in about right, I'm just mainly seeing the crease at the rear and the mashed in area over the hinge.

Make sure the whole post isn't pancaked. If the upper hinge is also in, that kicks the door out at the bottom. Tape measure each door opening in an X and compare to confirm its OK within oh, 1/4" or so. Windshield fit nice, does it? Lead seam not cracked out? Alright.

If you do any heavy cutting in this area you should put a brace maybe under the dash or top of the pillar, to the floor.

Many repair options, in order of severity, you pick:

Lots of guys would just mud it, if it fits.

Use a stud gun and slide hammer or weld the edge of a plate in the crease and clamp n pull the outer. After that, have an assistant back up the outer hinge area with a heavy block of wood or sledgehammer while you use a 3 lb mini sledge hammer on a suitable driving tool on the backside of the inner, the hinge plate. If the dent above the hinge is reachable, use smaller tools but do the same on the outer pillar skin.

Since the metal is kinked so bad and stretched, you can just slice the crease and get in that slot with a 90 degree flat end on your slide hammer to pull it all out. Then weld up the slot and fix from there.

Or you can cut out just the section of the outer that is dented up, beat everything straight, and butt weld that section back in. Two seams, better weld it good!

A larger section may be in order if you see fit. Normally an OE-approved type repair will have hinge posts sectioned between the hinges only. I approve of also doing it BEHIND the hinge in some cases, across the hinge bolt plate area. OE type repairs would have you cut it at the rocker behind the post and between the hinges. That would be nice if you really want to de-rust that girl for the long haul. Two cuts that you can butt weld back, and a bunch of spotwelds to cut, but then you can seperate the inner and outer and massage it all back like you want and kill a bunch more rust while you're in. Plus there will be no funny business right at the hinge.

Those are my thoughts, maybe theres an option for you in there somewhere. I can elaborate on any of it. Currently putting driver's floor in a Mach 1 so I kinda have a reference too. Good work with the pics, and congrats on being able to do the trusty steed right. Looks like you have a good sized job goin there!  
idrivejunk

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Guru | Posts: 1050 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 01/02/13
07:23 PM

Icon Quotepepsi1:
Go Get Em Matt.

"Happy New Year"

Bob


Happy New Year Bob  Cool  I'm "a-gittin"!  Grin  
idrivejunk

coupe3w coupe3w
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/03/13
09:26 AM

"OE type repairs would have you cut it at the rocker behind the post and between the hinges. That would be nice if you really want to de-rust that girl for the long haul. Two cuts that you can butt weld back, and a bunch of spotwelds to cut, but then you can seperate the inner and outer and massage it all back like you want and kill a bunch more rust while you're in. Plus there will be no funny business right at the hinge."


I like this plan the best. I think I will go this route. But before I go and cut anything should I hang the "new" door I just got first and see how it fits or should I cut the post out and repair it first then hang the door and massage the post after to get a good fit? Thanks for your help so far.  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Guru | Posts: 1050 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 01/03/13
11:28 AM

Great! You're welcome, and that will make a fine repair. It would be OK to skip the pre-cut fitting if thats more convenient, just be sure to fit it all with your repaired section securely screwed on before any welding. Just in case.  I thought you might like the idea of no more funny biz at the hinge. Glad to assist. Feel free to ask more later if needed, and remember we like "after" pics, too!  
idrivejunk

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Guru | Posts: 1050 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 01/03/13
05:32 PM

Hey- I was looking at my project Mustang and then again at your pics.

That hinge pillar is just spot-welded to the rocker right there so thats where you ought to take it loose, rather than cutting into the rocker. Hope I'm not too late in correcting myself but the idea remains the same. I've worked on too many FWD cars (with uni-side panels) and not enough Mustangs yet. Just cut the spotwelds at the bottom and make one horizontal slice somewhere between the hinges, then fix up your parts and go back together. Piece of cake!  
idrivejunk

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Guru | Posts: 1050 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 01/03/13
06:01 PM

Like this ... the '70 is made a little different but you get the idea. Spotwelds are yellow, cut somewhere around the red.

Stangpillar  
idrivejunk

coupe3w coupe3w
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/03/13
06:57 PM

Yes, I understood what you meant. That is exactly what I was going to do. Thanks for the picture. As you can see in my picture I have already removed most of the side cowl structure due to rust issues at the top near the cowl drain hole. So I am just going to do a horizontal cut above the lower hinge mounting point (just above the dent in mine) about half way between the hinge mounting points. Just like you show in your picture. But before I make the cut I will weld in a piece of 1 x 1 square tubing to support that area (under dash to floor). Then I am going to straighten everything and screw the piece back on with some sheet metal screws. Then I'm going to hang my "new" replacement door and see how it fits. Make adjustments and then I'm going to fit my new lower cowl, upper cowl, side cowl panels, inner fender aprons. Then hang the fenders and make sure all the body lines line up then weld. Does that sound right?  

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