Power Brake Service Hydroboost

There was an article in the March '09 (I think) issue on this system that was installed on a 71 Buick.
My '73 Century does not stop at all due to the big solid cam. I installed an SSBC vacuum pump in order to correct the vacuum issue, and just dont trust it. Within the 1st mile of operation the relay gave up. I was fortunate that it happened at 10MPH. Anything over that, it would have been hard times for my original paint 26,000 mile ride.
I've been trying to contact 'Power Brake Service" but, all the phone numbers I come across have been disconnected....
Did they go under after the CC story????  
73 Regal 350-4
73 Century 470

why not put a proper rated relay in the system before you spend another grand or more... on something else that will only give you one more brake push with boost when the engine dies....  i am not saying that hydroboost is bad...  it works great...  but if your only problem is a 15 buck 70 amp relay.. instead of a 5 buck 30 amp relay

google   70 amp relay....   there are a lot of vendors...    these use a special 3/8" terminals for the power connections.. pigtail sockets are also available...

jc whitney sells this one...
70-AMP 800-WATT CAPACITY HEAVY-DUTY RELAYS
Product Number: 11332G

you could also install a vacuum tank  to increase your reserve vacuum...  tee it into the line... have another check valve between it and the pump...  

you could also install a vacuum gauge  to know how much vacuum you have in the brake system...  even a light to warn you that the vacuum has dropped below normal levels...   gives you time to reach for the  parachute release lever..


just curious... your system is hooked up to intake manifold vacuum right...      so it is plumbed..

intake vacuum port,   aux vacuum pump, check valve, booster...   where are you controlling the vacuum pump from????

don't forget that some GM diesels came with belt driven vacuum pump for the power brakes...    got any room left???

almost all the systems on Gm cars.. have a black fuel filter looking thing... that is actually a carbon canister.. stops the fuel vapors from migrating up the hoses and eating up the rubber components in the system.. these carbon canisters have one draw back.. after years of service... they get clogged... causes a hard pedal for the first 10 to 15 seconds of engine operation..    this restriction slows down the vacuum to the booster... drives people crazy..

a lot of gm cars had these vacuum pumps stashed under the front fender...  some had a built in vacuum switch.. others used a vacuum switch on the power brake booster...

i hope all my rambling helps....  

My vacuum pump eliminates the engine vacuum.  I have it mounted where the the "black canister was". I have the pump wired to the ignition switch, plumbed to a Comp Cams vacuum tank, then to the factory booster. Maybe I will try a bigger relay.  I'm not really sold on the electric pump.  I will give your sugestion some thought.
Do you know anyone that used an electric pump for any lenght of time?

Thanks!  
73 Regal 350-4
73 Century 470

most of the vacuum pumps are booster pumps... designed to increase the vacuum supplied by the motor...


i really don't think that they are designed to eliminate the engine as a vacuum source..



it won't usually effect how the engine runs... as  you only pass air through the system when you release the brakes... and its not much...    try hooking it up as a booster pump...  it will only take a few minutes... and 20 bucks of power brake vacuum hose...


one of my friends was going to try one of the factory brake booster pumps as a vacuum sump system... it did not make enough vacuum for him. . he got one of the gm electric smog pumps...  now he is happy.. so there is another option...  

My pump is from Stainless Steel Brake Corporation, as per the instructions, they say to bypass the engine vacuum. But for 20 bucks versus 1,000 plus  I will try to incorporate both and see if that makes a diffence.
Thanks again for your ideas!  
73 Regal 350-4
73 Century 470

I am Matt from Power Brake Service and you can call me at (562)394-8219 for orders, or email me at mattpowerbrake@yahoo.com.  You are already aware of the lack of vacuum due to your big cam, we have been in business for 50 years and have tried everything.  We tried vacuum pumps, tweaking the booster, and we, the guys who spend 12 hours a day up to our ears in brakes, have come to the conclusion that if the vacuum just isn't there, then you should go another direction with it, and for the time, money, effort, and performance, the hydroboost is what we like.

The vacuum pump cannot pull enough vacuum to evacuate a large booster fast enough to give the proper operating power for a vacuum booster.  The 70 amp relay will still not pull enough vacuum to make it work correctly.  Adding a tank just makes the pump run longer which will lead to the pump overheating and wearing out, it is just not a reliable system.  If you have a large cam or supercharger it is futile to chase after vacuum, it isn’t there, and the continual process of buying new pumps and add on tanks is expensive.  Think smarter, not harder.

All vacuum boosters are rated to operate at 20 inches of vacuum, most performance cam shafts lower it down to 14 inches at idle and 7 inches in drive.   A vacuum pump will give an extra 20% assist, but vacuum pumps generally burn up in 6 months.  We see people come to us continuously with various other systems that they have spent hundreds of dollars on already and are reluctant to pay more for the hydroboost ($480 - $1,000 depending on options).  It is more expensive initially to buy, but it is a performance system, and when considering the time and effort spent in chasing after vacuum pumps, pulling vacuum boosters off of similar vehicles at the junk yard, it is cheaper in the long run to buy something that you can put on once and leave on without worry for 100 to 200 thousand miles.

Vacuum boosters loose about half of their power output in major performance upgrades when the vacuum drops from 20 inches to 15.  At 7 inches of vacuum there is virtually no power assist from a vacuum booster.  The hydroboost needs no vacuum because it runs off the power steering pump pressure and only pumps harder when you put on a large camshaft.  The hydroboost will deliver up to 2000 pounds of pressure at idle pump speed, and is the performance choice for anybody who cares.

We are video taping an instillation on a vortec supercharged 90’s sc T-bird at Art Carr’s shop that should be online in a week or two, the link will be http://www.youtube.com/powerbrakeservice.  We will be taping Art’s Turbo Buick after that and I will post that on the same youtube channel.  The videos won’t answer all of your questions for the 73 Buick, but call or email any questions you have after it and we will try and address them.

(562) 394-8219  

Thanks for the info    
73 Regal 350-4
73 Century 470

You can see the video that we at Power Brake Service just put together installing a Hydroboost on Art Carr's Turbo Buick.  The link is youtube.com/powerbrakeservice.  

Interesting.,. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
I'm sure others are too.

 
When The Flag Drops,,,



The Bull Chit Stops,,,

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

The may 2011 issue has a install of a junkyard astro van hydroboost. i believe some diesel pick-ups also have hydro boost. I have a 87 audi turbo 5 cyd, with hydro, its the way to go. the astro van looked pretty easy to adapt to most gm's. the accumulator looks kinda small, but im sure it has to stop an astro after a engine stall it should stop an full size car. Power Brake service can set you the right way though.  

I cannot assert enough that a any brakes that you get from a junkyard and put on your vehicle should be rebuilt first. The hydroboost is the best thing since sliced bread for performance engines, but they should get a rebuild every 100 to 150 thousand miles. It is an awesome unit, but wear and tear can happen if people are too hard on the pump or brake, and if the fluid gets hot the seals can swell. A $400 rebuild every 150,000 miles makes it the cheapest brake unit around in the long haul. Junkyard units can already have 100,000 miles on it, which means you aren't getting a deal at all.

A used core is not the same as a rebuilt unit, which is the cheaper way to go. Be careful though, we have been in the business for years and have seen it all. We do charge around 350 plus core charge for a rebuilt unit, and that is because we take it apart and rebuild them, check the seals, and replace everything that needs to be, there are more than a few places we know that pressure check them, throw coat of new paint on, then turn around and sell it. If you find a unit that seems to be a fraction of what it costs from us or the rest of the ones you see out there, it is probably a painted core.