Alcohol conversion

I am looking to convert my 500cfm holley 2brl to methanol. I am not looking for a high performance carb, it will be on a demo-derby car with a stock 350. I am looking for the cool running benefits but not looking to spend an arm and a leg. The E85 article looked simple enough, any suggestions? The carb is model #4412--2300 series.

Thanks,Tony

since the car is for a demo i wouldn't worry about the alcohol eating the gaskets and stuff like that. Any way from what  i know a gas engine being converted to alcohol will need about twice as much fuel going to the engine because of having less energy then gasoline . so rejetting the carb may be in order for you.  Of coarse you can see if the car even runs on it in the first place. another thought is that as the engine heats up as it will, the alchol will be evaporating quicker then gas so a rich mixture will be needed. seeing as this is a demo car maybe  you could just run it stock and see what happens.

Try the book Supertuning and Modifying Holley Carbuetors by Dave Emanuel. It has a great chapter on alcohol modifcations. The basics should apply to your 2-bbl also.  

Thanks for the input. I do have that manual, I am trying to locate an alcohol metering block so I don't have to drill my block. I think I have found them at Quickfuel.

Tony

I dont think you wanna do that. Everyone is only allowed 5 gallons of gas right? well if it uses alcohol faster than gas, you might be out of the game too soon.  

Methanol is not ethanol.  Methanol is more corrosive and has less energy content than Ethanol.  If you plan to run a methanol fueled engine more than once it's best to flush out all the methanol at the end of the run.  Otherwise you could find yourself with all sorts of problems due to methanol's corrosive nature.  Especially when you are running stuff not specifically built to run methanol. 

Roughly speaking methanol has about half the energy of gasoline and ethanol is roughly between them in energy content.  This means you will need to run twice as much methanol thru the engine to get the same power levels as gasoline.  Most carbs designed for gasoline use will not flow enough methanol thru them, even with serious mods.  Then after all these mods you still have a carb that will be suceptible to corrosion and will not work with gasoline anymore.  And as someone pointed out with a limited amount of fuel allowed you will cut your running time in half, so you better win quick.

For a derby car I don't see the benefit, unless you are thinking it's cooler running would keep your engine living after the loss of a radiator.  I don't think that would be so, imo.

The amount of fuel is not restricted at most of the events I run. The things I have heard from the people I have talked to about the methanol are pretty good. The only bad things I have heard are about the frequent oil changes and as you mentioned, the corrosiveness. The drag-car guys I have talked to say that even on the big inch motors that they run, it is still hard to make heat in the motor. I am still researching, but I think it might be worth it. Thanks for the input.

Tony

You won't need a radiator at all on methanol. You might have trouble getting it started on a cool night, though. I always prime my injector with gas because it fires easier. If you run top lube, it helps the corrosiveness & water absorption a bunch. I seal my fuel tank vent after a race, and the car can sit for 2-3 weeks without a problem. How many events is a derby car expected to live through? If your fuel pump isn't compatible with alcohol you could have a disaster on your hands.

Thanks for the input. I was planning on running an alcohol compatible mechanical pump and regulator with alcohol compatible line. I was curious about the top-lube, does it dampen the fumes of methanol?

Thanks again for the input, Tony

I use the cherry scented stuff, but if I'm backing into the shop the fumes still burn your nose & eyes.  

I wasn't going to get involved here. But I just can't help my self!!!

OK, Here's the low down on E-85. Take it or leave it? I'm not guessing, I'm not telling you what some one said. I'm not telling you what I might have read.

This stuff is not new. It used to be used in Model A's,T's, Tractors, etc... In fact it is all most farmers had to run these things on and H-Ford knew it. So he made them simple enough to run Methonal, which back then was just moon shine, corn liqure. It is called E85 to day because it is 85% corn liquar and 15% gasoline. The gasoline is so that when it catches fire the flames can be seen blue, green, yellow. Ethinal or the like burns without a flame. It is a Government regulation that the gas be added.

Here's how to turn your vehicle into and E-85. I've done many of them!!!!

Lets start at the back of the car.

1). The fuel tank in your car is just fine for the change if it is a stock metal tank.
2). Buy about 4 or 5 fuel filters. It will get really cleaned out by this stuff.  So the sludge and residue in your tank will clog them up until cleaned.
3). Take the float in the tank, if it is brase? and have the solder removed from it and have it silver-soldered. E 85 will eat the original solder.
4). Have any of the solders on the sending unit silver soldered as well. other than this the tank is ready, replace the sock with an alcohal compatible one. speed shop may have this.
5). Replace all fuel lines with stainless, or you could use the new plastic lines. stainless is nicer and easier to bend and conture.
6). Replace all rubber hoses with Alcohal compatible hose. Speed shops should have this.
7). Replace the fuel pump with an alcohal compatible. Again Speed shops should have this.
8). Disassemble the carb. Replace the needle seat if rubber with an all metal one. Again Speed shop.
9). Remove the float or floats. Have the solder on these replaced with silver solder if metal. If not most others used may be fine. This depends on the material used. If you find that it eats them. the speed shop.
10). Replace all rubber diaphrams with alcohal compatible. Speed shop.
11). Install larger jets. About 2 to 3 times larger. this will depend on the carb. and may have to be played with. Speed shop. If you jet the carb/carbs right, take some playing, you can run both, E85 and gasoline.
12). Put it all back together.
13). Fill tank. In time you may have to change the filler neck rubber, but some of these are compatible.
14). Start engine, set timing. This stuff will allow you to advance the timing with out spark knock, so you can play with performance here.
15). Adjust Carb. you may have to play here too. usually running it a little richer.
16), Throw the filters and tools to change them in the trunk.
17). Drive the piss out of it, and have fun!!!!!!

Note: if you can find one? I'm not too sure who has them. But a water sensor in the tank with readout on the dash will monitor moisture in the tank. If you are getting on this thing and water flows with the fuel. Engine damage could occure.
Rare, but possible.

ALSO NOTE!!!! This stuff is far more valitile than gas. It ignites much easier. Are you sure you want to us it in a demo durby??????????????