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Do I build it? Need HELP

  
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Do I build it? Need HELP

 
72oldswisconsin 72oldswisconsin
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 04/09
Posted: 04/29/09
08:18 PM

Hey guys I am currently a college student and own a 1972 Cutlass Supreme.  It has the original 350 in it and i would like to build it up to around 400-450 hp.  I do not know if it is possible.  If it is not what would be some alternatives, what would be the best combination for parts to achieve this goal in the 350 if it possible.  Thanks for any help  

 
CSIROC CSIROC
Guru | Posts: 793 | Joined: 11/05
Posted: 05/01/09
06:48 AM

Definitely possible.  There's actually quite a few routes to go with that as well.  You can rework the stock heads, use big block heads (either stock or aftermarket) with a little work...

The key is being able to use big block heads.  This opens up your performance potential and a host of cylinder heads available.  Again though, for the range of power you're looking for, I think a reworked set of small block heads will get you by.

Dick Miller (dickmillerracing.com) offers Olds 350 crate motors running up to 640 HP.  Mondello (mondellotwister.com) has a few articles on building small blocks (not necessarily 350s, but most of the stuff crosses over).  

I can talk about the general stuff...but can't get too much into the details.  I know what my Cutlass is running (got the build sheet and have had many lengthy discussions with the guy at the machine shop who built it), but I didn't put it together (got an AMAZING deal from a guy who couldn't pay his machine shop bill).  The big block heads will require higher compression pistons as well as port matching to the intake (and the intake needs enough material to allow this...the Edelbrock Performer RPM is designed with this in mind).  You'll need to convert to an adjustable valve train (kits are available...I've got one from Comp Cams with roller tip rockers).  You'll want to beef up the oiling system (restrictors are a must...cheap, but a must).  The block can withstand a massive overbore (have a sonic check performed first)...mine is over to 4.155" to accept Keith Black Chevy 400 pistons.  Cam choices are plenty...lots of companies offer them in a wide range of performance.

If you want to build one...it can easily be done.  Make sure you've got a really good machine shop available (preferably one that knows a thing or two about Oldsmobiles).  Also check out 442.com...there's quite a bit of information over there (some of the opinions you'll need to take with a grain of salt...everyone had different ideas about building engines).  Hard to talk without some specifics because there are quite a few paths you can go by.  Bowser used to stop in here every once in a while...but I haven't seen him around in a long time.  He's got a 330 thats been built up a bit hotter than even my 350 (I toned down the cam for every day driving).  He's a full on Olds nut...  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

 
72oldswisconsin 72oldswisconsin
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 04/09
Posted: 05/02/09
09:17 PM

Thanks for the info that is where i am now, trying to do some research and find which route i want to take.  You mentioned using big block heads, i am looking into this because i figure if i wanted to go for more power down the road that htey would give me a better plateform, am i right? Ill check on those sites and see what i can find, Thanks again for the info.  

 
CSIROC CSIROC
Guru | Posts: 793 | Joined: 11/05
Posted: 05/03/09
03:52 PM

Big block heads definitely offer a better platform.  The great thing about them is that the port volume isn't outrageous (like a big block Chevy).  I believe Edelbrock's Performer RPM aluminum heads for a big block Olds come in with 188 cc's intake port volume.  There's quite a few aftermarket high performance Chevy small block heads that come in around that range...for reference.

Again though, you'll be dealing with a larger combustion chamber, which will require a bit of bottom end work to pump up the compression to a reasonable amount (or if you wish to go aftermarket, I believe some of the offerings have enough material to allow milling down to a reasonable combustion chamber volume).

I think Olds small blocks are pretty cool...there's lots of little quirks about them.

Good luck.  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

 
ulish ulish
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 04/08
Posted: 05/03/09
04:41 PM

hey. im a college student as well and own a 72 cutlass s.I recently rebuild my 350 last summer and it runs great. I got it bored .030 over, rods resized, crank ground, and new top end. The pistons I used are speed pro power forged. Most certainly put the oil restriction kit in. I didnt and I am payin for it. Oil pressure suffers. Also a must is a high volume oil pan. Any other questions? just ask.  

 
72oldswisconsin 72oldswisconsin
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 04/09
Posted: 05/04/09
10:30 AM

I was wondering if you knew what kind of power you are making with that build?  Iam looking for some decent powerbut also setting it up where i can make more in the future.  Also wat intake manifold and carb size did you go with?  That build sounds like something i could do for the time being and still have some fun with it.  

 
ulish ulish
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 04/08
Posted: 05/04/09
05:42 PM

well i do know that edelbrock made 396 hp using all of their parts for the olds 350. I dont know what my power numbers are but probably 320hp to the crank. If you set the car up with decent gears it should be able to get into the high 13s. I saw a 72 cutlass S with the 350 able to do this. The intake I have is the edelbrock performer and the 600 cfm edelbrock 4 barrel. It also has headers and 2.5 in dual exhaust with side exit. I also have a double roller timing chain, moly rings, .030 over, and a cam that is a little up from stock. If i could redo it the best way to go would be the edelbrock performer cam and lifter kit, the carb, the intake, and the oil restriction kit without a doubt. I didnt get the oil restriction kit or edel cam.  

 
ulish ulish
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 04/08
Posted: 05/04/09
05:44 PM

Oh and like I was saying earlier, you will definately want to get a bigger oil pan trust me on that one. For some reason these olds engines lose pressure through the oiling system, and the oil get too hot...  

 
CSIROC CSIROC
Guru | Posts: 793 | Joined: 11/05
Posted: 05/04/09
06:06 PM

ulish:
Oh and like I was saying earlier, you will definately want to get a bigger oil pan trust me on that one. For some reason these olds engines lose pressure through the oiling system, and the oil get too hot...

A bigger oil pan would be a good thing to add...but it isn't necessary if you take care of the oiling system.  The reason you are having trouble is because the pump is shooting all of your oil to the top (a design feature to keep the valvetrain noise down)...but very little of it can actually make it back down...that dries the pan pretty quick.  This is the reason why putting a high volume oil pump is really not a good idea on an Olds...makes a bad situation worse.

But again, it is a really good thing to add...especially if you plan to run the car hard on a regular basis.  Just make sure not to lose any ground clearance with one if you plan to drive much on the street.  Some of those pans can hang VERY low.  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

 
ulish ulish
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 04/08
Posted: 05/05/09
12:17 PM

Yeah so the basic idea is that the oil restriction along with increased oil capacity will help the olds run better and longer especially if you are going to drag race!  

 
oldsfreak oldsfreak
User | Posts: 104 | Joined: 03/09
Posted: 06/15/09
07:38 PM

I would use the stock heads off that car, they flow about the same as most big block heads unless you are looking at the A,B,or C heads, I would have some bigger valves put in and have them throated, just the bigger valve will give you about 10-15 CFM,(I mildly ported my stock 403 heads, didnt see any agains until I put in a bigger valve), small block heads also have a smaller port so you will have a lot more velocity,   most people just think bigger is better,  if you can get the same flow numbers from a smaller port you will be making more power and it will rev a lot faster,    oil restricters,  dont use the ones from mondello, that aluminum junk,  you are suppose to install them after you have the block all nice and clean,  well you hammer them in and some aluminum flakes off, going somewhere in the block, JUNK,  what i did is i drilled a .090" hole  in the cam bearing 90degrees to the factory hole in the bearing, then debur them,  or tap the oil holes for a pipe plug and then drill a hole in the pipe plug, i like about .090"  drill them in the block then take them to finish clean the block,  brush the tapped holes.  

 

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