Get Ready to Kiss Your Chance at a V8 Goodby

This is more boring than an article on hot rodding a 305.  

Apathy. That's one of the things they're counting on.

Of course in 25 years, the metaphor will be "that's more boring than turbocharging a Prius."  (305s will be as distant of a memory as a flathead is today)  
*****
TURBO TED --Internationally known as the "John Force of the Yugo Racing Association."

Sergeant-at-Arms and immediate Past President of the SoAL Yugo Owners Group.

thisispeace:
This is more boring than an article on hot rodding a 305.

By the way, I think Hot Rod did one of those back in the '80s.  The Camaro went up in a 7-cylinder haze of flame and smoke while the 5.0 Mustang took the win light.  I think it was at the (late) Orange County International Raceway about 1983.

It seems like Popular Hot Rodding also tried to hop a 305 in a Cam Benty edited 3-way project car Shoot-Out in the mid '80s.  A FWD Shelby Charger and a Mustang put the hurt to the old Bow-Tie speed bump in that one.  
*****
TURBO TED --Internationally known as the "John Force of the Yugo Racing Association."

Sergeant-at-Arms and immediate Past President of the SoAL Yugo Owners Group.

FieroGTFormula: "Yeah and when you exhale out your lungs you exhale CO2, so go get a catylitic converter for your mouth as well. . . When you post, try to leave the technical stuff out."

I'm not aware of catalytic converter that removes CO2.

"A three-way catalytic converter has three simultaneous tasks:

Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen: 2NOx [yields] xO2 + N2

Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 [yields] 2CO2

Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (HC) to carbon dioxide and water: 2CxHy + (2x+y/2)O2 [yields] 2xCO2 + yH2O"

Sorry for the technical jargon, but the point is that even incomplete combustion engines are rectified under current emissions technology to produce huge quantities of C02.

The enviromaniacs who want to run every aspect of your life in order to "save the planet" from "climate change" want to drastically slash CO2 emissions below 1990 levels, and the only way to do that is to burn less carbon-based fuels

FieroGTFormula: "We . . . will never see an engine that CAN and WILL burn all the fuel, with little emissions, and get 50 MPG, and still performs."

That would be the point of this thread.

Unless something like Doug Pelmear's 110 m.p.g.e V8 Mustang is the "real deal", Obama's massive increase in the Corporate Average Fuel Economy Standard will kill performance in anything larger than a go-kart.  And any V8 larger than about 2.5 liters would be consigned to history. (Of course we'll still be building them while supplies last)

FieroGTFormula: "Go vote Obama in and you'll have a catylitic converter, EGR valve, AIR pump, and O2 sensor sticking out of your mouth."

It won't be that bad.

But expect a lot fewer V8s, fewer "Car Craftable" new vehicles, higher prices on all high performance cars and parts, more regulations, higher fuel prices ("Cap and trade" carbon schemes are a hidden tax on fuel use),  less drilling, more taxpayer-funded alternative energy subsidies, more invasive emissions inspections . . .

All of these things will increase the cost and hassle factor of Car Crafting and will reduce the number of participants.

Sure, the hard core Car Crafters -- the ones who would walk a mile barefooted on broken glass for a nitrous bottle refill or who would swap out a double pumper during a blizzard wearing only a Milodon t-shirt and oil-stained cut-offs -- will still be building, regardless of what the "Obamaistas" and Sierra Clubbers do.

BUT, increased costs and reduced "raw material" (cheap, late model "craftable" cars) WILL reduce participation at the margins.   That means fewer parts sold, fewer jobs in the aftermarket, less money for development of new parts, smaller events, etc.  
--------------------------------
460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
-------
October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

Ok esentially  the 3-way catylitic converters does, what the engine cannot do from incomplete combustion. Since we aren't in a perfect world, we won't see complete combustion. In other words, we will always pollute, even with catylists, when burning carbon based fuels. Understand something here, CO2 is used by plants to make breathable O2, so answer me one very good question. Why do eco-nazi's care about CO2 emissions? I mean blowing away a coulple million people or animals will reduce CO2 as well. It would reduce methane emissions from when we break wind as well. Ever wonder why farts are flammable??? Oxygen in the air is the catylist to burn the fuel(methane gas). Granted the gas will not burn if there isn't a % of concentration of the total area. This hold true for all fuel sources. Too much, or too little and no combustion. C'mon on it is getting a little ridiculous when we worry about putting more gas in the air, that is changed to breathable air. What's more sad is the amount of people dumb enough to believe that is a real problem. Oh well, I'm gonna go finish throwing the lock-up 700R4, and 3.42 axle, with my newly found 283 dinosaur together, and then I'm buying some fuel-Stabil, putting 23 gallons of gas in my car, and storing it. I figure when the commies, err I mean Democrats come to take it away it will be hard for their phonebooth on wheels to keep up with me at 140+. Everyone will bounce this thread around, but the original poster is right, put Osama Obama in office and you can see another repeat of the 70's and car getting de-nutted, as history tends to repeat itself. I can't afford 4 more years of Republican's, but Democrats will take all my money and freedoms, Republican's tend to just take your money, at least you're still free.  
Guzzling gas and hauling ass, the true American way.

Hey man, I'm with you on the ridiculousness of the radical greeniac hysteria over C02 and "climate change."

It's just that the "true believers" in forced cuts in C02 are apparently about to take charge.

This is nothing more than a socialist power grab and is wholly an overreaction to a speculative problem.

BTW, methane is a far more "offensive" greenhouse gas than CO2 to the Sierra Clubbers. (Not because of smell but because of heat-trapping ability) Some of the more radical elements on the left have even called for forced reductions in the consumption of beef and dairy products (fewer cows, less methane. Less methane, less climate change).  That's crazy!

Perhaps we ought to all go eat a huge steak, wash it down Indy 500-style with a quart of ice-cold "victory" milk, then vent our nitrous bottles to the atmosphere in a huge plume and do a massive tire-popping burnout to protest this greenhouse gas madness . . . .

But it'd probably be more effective to vote against the bums who want to steal our freedom, instead.

They'll get my V8 when they pry my cold, dead hands off of the shifter.  
--------------------------------
460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
-------
October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

OK OK..SOUNDS LIKE A PRESIDETIAL DEBATE TO ME. A BUNCH OF HE SAID SHE SAID..IM 26 YRS OLD AND I OWN 60s 70s CARS AND TRUCK THAT I WOULDNT TRADE OR SELL FOR ANYTHING. HOPEFULLY THEY WILL GO TO MY KIDS. I KEEP HEARING FROM YOU GUYS THAT THE MUSCLE CAR OR V8 ENGINE WILL DIE LIKE IT DID OR ALMOST DID IN THE 70s.. OH MY GOODNESS... HOW WILL WE EVER LIVE WITH OUT A V8.

I WASNT AROUND BACK THEN AND MAYBE SOME OF YOU WERE OR WERE NOT. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT SAID YOU LIVED IT AND KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE. DID IT KILL YOU? ARENT YOU ALIVE AND KICKING NOW? IF A CAR OR TRUCK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE THAN IM SORRY FOR YOU. AREN'T THERE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THIS WORLD THAN A V8 RWD? NOW DONT GET ME WRONG GUYS IF SOME ONE WAS TO COME AND TELL ME MY CLASSIC CARB V8 IS BANNED AND GOING TO THE SCRAP YARD I WILL BE SOOO MAD AND FIGHT FOR IT AND MOST LIKELY LOSE A LOT OF SLEEP OVER, BUT GUESS WHAT? THE NEXT DAY, THE SUN WILL STILL RISE AND SET AND HOPEFULLY I WILL TAKE MY KIDS TO SCHOOL IN MY 63 CHEVY 383cid.  

AND FOR THE GUY WHO BROUGHT UP THE CLOUDS OF HURRICANE KATRINA MOST LIKELY WAS NO WHERE NEAR LOUISIANNA, TEXAS, OR THE WHOLE GULF COAST. SO YOU HAVE NO BUISNESS BRINGING THAT UP IN A POLITCS CONVERSATION OR EVEN TRYING TO COMPARE THAT DISASTER TO SOME CAR YOU HAVE.  

Do the folks over at the National Rifle Association have such a struggle mobilizing gun owners to protect our Second Amendment freedoms?

Po Choppa,

1. This is a board about building affordable, traditional V8 RWD muscle cars, so obviously whatever we discuss is tailored to that viewpoint.

2. I doubt that few CC readers view their street machines, classic muscle cars and/or race cars as the most important thing in life. The answers are probably diverse, but faith, family and freedom probably top a lot of "most important" lists.

3. Although our cars are generally not the most important things in life, I'm certain that most CC readers derive a lot of pleasure, self-identity, ego, recognition, freedom and social interactions from our exploits with our cars.

4. It is entirely legitimate to discuss whether a particular political movement will adversely impact our automotive hobby/avocation/vocation.

5. It's ironic that probably the same people who would protest the loudest against FWDs and four cylinders in CC are the same ones who ignore the political winds that guarantee FWDs and fours will become the only kinds of vehicles available to millions of potential Car Crafters.

6. No the world didn't end in the 1970s.  However, for many environmentalists, 1975 is the performance base line.  So if you want 10 second or worse 0-60 times to become the norm and not the exception, then vote for THE ONE who guarantees to put us on the freedom-grabbing path to a 50+ m.p.g. fuel economy standard.

7. There never would have been cars like the massive, gas-sucking '63 Impala under a 50+ m.p.g. CAFE standard. (Think about it)

8. Even if you NEVER plan to drive anything newer than the 1960s, cap and trade carbon credit plans will prompt big utilities and industries to ramp up crushing valuable parts cars, such as '63 Impalas.

9. The bureaucrats at the E.P.A. are already chomping at the bit to start heavily regulating C02 emissions in ways that will directly and indirectly hurt Car Crafting.

Here's a recent story about Obama's Carbon Ultimatum.

"Jason Grumet is currently executive director of an outfit called the National Commission on Energy Policy and one of Mr. Obama's key policy aides. In an interview last week with Bloomberg, Mr. Grumet said that come January the Environmental Protection Agency 'would initiate those rulemakings' that classify carbon as a dangerous pollutant under current clean air laws. That move would impose new regulation and taxes across the entire economy, something that is usually the purview of Congress. Mr. Grumet warned that 'in the absence of Congressional action' 18 months after Mr. Obama's inauguration, the EPA would move ahead with its own unilateral carbon crackdown anyway."  

"Well, well. For years, Democrats -- including Senator Obama -- have been howling about the "politicization" of the EPA, which has nominally been part of the Bush Administration. The complaint has been that the White House blocked EPA bureaucrats from making the so-called "endangerment finding" on carbon. Now it turns out that a President Obama would himself wield such a finding as a political bludgeon. He plans to issue an ultimatum to Congress: Either impose new taxes and limits on carbon that he finds amenable, or the EPA carbon police will be let loose to ravage the countryside."  

"The EPA hasn't made a secret of how it would like to centrally plan the U.S. economy under the 1970 Clean Air Act. In a blueprint released in July, the agency didn't exactly say it'd collectivize the farms -- but pretty close, down to the "grass clippings." The EPA would monitor and regulate the carbon emissions of "lawn and garden equipment" as well as everything with an engine, like cars, planes and boats. Eco-bureaucrats envision thousands of other emissions limits on all types of energy. Coal-fired power and other fossil fuels would be ruled out of existence, while all other prices would rise as the huge economic costs of the new regime were passed down the energy chain to consumers."  

(Just imagine how much a permanent price of $6 - $8/gallon for gasoline would affect your Car Crafting budget.  

Or a tripling of your electric bill.  

Or a massive "cubic inch" tax on the engine in your muscle car when you go to register it.  

Or an annual emission inspection geared to determine whether you've "tampered" with your car by increasing its horsepower capacity, thereby increasing its C02 emissions (more power on carbon fuels equals more C02 emissions)

10. There are scores of reasons to vote against Obama, most of which are not particularly relevant to this forum.  But the reasons that are relevant ought to be chilling to anyone who questions climate change hysteria and values automotive freedom.

11. If you really believe there is a climate problem and CO2 causes it and killing V8s and crushing classic cars will "save the planet," then be consistent -- sell your street machine, buy a Smart or a Prius (or better yet a bicycle or a transit pass) and turn off your computer (wastes electricity).
However, if you're a common-sense Car Crafter who wants to preserve the freedoms and opportunities that WE ENJOY for future generations of Car Crafters, you simply cannot stick your head in the sand while the enviromaniacs incrementally outlaw our way of life.  
--------------------------------
460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
-------
October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

Well said; Stude_SS!  

Its also our responsability to tune (or tamper whichever you perfer) or CARS for power and fuel economy.

I've built cars that gained 100hp but also gained 3-5 more mpg and passed CA smog tests with a hollowed cat.

I believe our hobby can grow to be a MEAN GREEN FIGHTING (OR SPEEDING, RACING ETC...) MACHINE! It just takes more effort and more research before we but new parts to tune of projects with.  

A "hollowed cat" isn't very "green."  In fact, it's a violation of Federal law that sports a fairly big fine if you're caught.

And there isn't any "hollowed cat" that will circumvent C02 regulations.

ANY IMPROVEMENT YOU MAKE TO YOUR CAR THAT WILL INCREASE HORSEPOWER INCREASES C02 EMISSIONS (except for perhaps reductions in fuel energy lost to heat rejection and or internal friction).  

When the CO2 POLICE start running annual emission inspections, what are you going to be able to "get past" them?  

Hey, if you and Stude SS want a government-regulated, tamper-resistant, sealed-for-your-protection, "nanny state" future -- one in which we're swapping stories about the "good old days" and crusing on $8/gallon gas in our tiny 1 liter FWD turbo cars, then you're about to get the "CHANGE" you want.  
--------------------------------
460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
-------
October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

I'd also point out that so many younger CC readers apparently fail to appreciate the looming threat and (and are uncritically drinking the "Change" Kool-Aide) because CC and the others in the automotive press have done such a poor job at educating their readers.

If the gun magazines had done as poor of a job, only outlaws would have any guns by now.  
--------------------------------
460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
-------
October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

Whoa now...don't be telling people to go out and buy a Prius if they care about the environment...thats for the hypocrites who want to appear to be "green"...but just forget how damaging it is to the environment to get that nickel for those batteries.

Course...most public environmentalists are hypocrites...Al Gore anyone?  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

Hey now...don't lump me in with anyone...I'm not drinking any of Obama's "change" kool-aid...I know he's full of _____ (to be fair...so is McCain...though he's less scary).

I'm just not getting worked up over regulations that aren't even being proposed yet...ie, wolf at the door.  You say there is a wolf (Obama's and environmentalist's plans)...I agree.  Where we disagree is where the wolf is.  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

What i was trying to say is if you plan out your modifications (tune) properly you can increase power, economy and get lower emissions. With or without EGRS', smog pumps and cats.  

CSIROC:
Whoa now...don't be telling people to go out and buy a Prius if they care about the environment...thats for the hypocrites who want to appear to be "green"...but just forget how damaging it is to the environment to get that nickel for those batteries.

Course...most public environmentalists are hypocrites...Al Gore anyone?

Of course there's a huge middle ground between not caring about the environment at all and signing on to a 50+ m.p.g. CAFE and a roll-back of C02 emissions to EIGHTY PERCENT LESS than 1990!

Certainly a Prius is an ego-massaging, I'm-greener-than-thou, "feel good" bit o' kit, much like the original VW Beetle was more of an anti-materialism/pro-internationalist/"appliance" motorist fashion statement during the halcyon days of the Muscle Car '60s.

But I suspect that for those truly convinced that human activity is dooming the "planet" a little nickel mining pollution is a small price to pay for tons of reduced CO2 emissions.  As Chairman Mao (or was it Josef Stalin) said, "to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs." (I'll bet Obama's old friend Bill Ayers knows who said that)

Still, I think the Doc's point is valid.

If you think C02 emissions are such a big deal, clean up your own before you start legislating about mine. (Some really, really smart guy from Nazareth (not the rock group) came up with that timeless principle as I recall it . . . and some of the meddling, power-mad hypocrites conspired with an overbearing government to whack him . . . .)

I also think that we need to be responsibly vigilant.

Hacking off your cat con, trashing all your smog stuff and bribing the emissions inspector isn't too responsible when there are plenty of ways to go quick and fast without doing any of that.  

And pretending that we can "go along to get along" or that "everything will work out"  or that "it don't affect me because it's just politics"  or "we can just wait it out" or "I've already got mine, so who cares about anybody else" when there's a real risk that THIS TIME the greens are going to shut us down (or at least put a huge clamp-down on our lifestyle) isn't very vigilant.

I'm obviously a turbo guy, so I should want all of this because it will be a huge booster for turbocharging. But I can see how this could really hurt my "all motor" "comrades" (Hey we gotta get the new/old collectivist lingo down. Might as well get an early start . . . .)  
*****
TURBO TED --Internationally known as the "John Force of the Yugo Racing Association."

Sergeant-at-Arms and immediate Past President of the SoAL Yugo Owners Group.