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roadkillracing
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 07/24/08
05:28 PM

G'day,  As you can tell I am new to your forum and would like a bit of advice.  OK, maybe a lot of advice.  

I have a 59 Chevy basket case that has been a drag racer all of its life.  The car is currently sitting in pieces in our shop and I am trying to decide on a good drive line for it.  The problem is, I am a packrat which leads to too many choices.  Also, with the new interest in old race cars it would be a good time for this to see daylight again.  

The transmission is easy.  I have a fresh turbo 400 with a JW bell, the 475 straight cut deep gear set, and a trans brake.

The engine is where things get tough.  I have an original date correct 283 that we could put together in some sort of stock form.  Just doesn't seem like enough fun.  Also available are a couple of big blocks, one complete ls7 and an L88 short block and various heads to choose from.  What we are leaning towards is a 418 small block with Brodix Track 1 heads.  (0.020 over bored 400 with a 3 7/8 stroke Calles crank.  These parts are also on hand.  I am leaning towards the small block but am open to suggestions.  

If I ever figure out how to use the digital camera I will post a couple of pictures.  


 
dr511scj_1
Enthusiast | Posts: 636 | Joined: 10/03
Posted: 07/25/08
07:00 AM

It depends on what you're going to do with the car.

If it's going to be a nostalgia race/show car, then you need a vintage appearing mill (no Track 1 heads).   For maximum impact, a '59 ought to have a W-motor (348, 409). But using what's on hand would suggest a vintage-appearing SBC, unless the vibe is later than 1965 (a BBC would be ok then).

If it's going to be a bracket race car, then it should be a BBC, unless you just don't have enough parts on hand to build one.  There's simply no meaningful advantage to using a SBC (except perhaps cost) unless you're building to fit a specific class.

A BBC is a superior engine to the SBC for a sportsman racer.  While the NASCAR people got remarkable outputs out of SBCs (before NASCAR "gave" them the SB2 and the RO7 "cheater" engines), in sportsman racing (where the budgets and the RPM limits are much lower), there's still no cheap and easy replacment for displacement.  Even when you throw power-adders into the mix, the path to a 900+ h.p. BBC is a lot easier, potentially cheaper, and more reliable than a 900+ h.p. SBC.

An SBC isn't going to make enough of a difference on weight distribution to matter in a heavy bracket car. Proper suspension tuning can offset any weight penalty.

The torque advantage of a BBC over a SBC in a heavy bracket car (power-adder or none) at the starting line should alone be enough to tip the balance in favor of the BBC.

If it's going to be a weekend street car, a BBC will generate more interest on cruise night (not as much as a W-motor or something more innovative, such as a MoPar Hemi or even a DOHC Ford Modular swap).  But a big block without an overdrive is at best a 14 m.p.g. proposition.

If it's going to be a daily driver that has to balance m.p.g. with performance, then an option is to turbocharge, intercool and add EFI to the 283 and swap the TH400 for a modern overdrive transmission.   That could produce a sweet cruiser with 500+ hp** on tap and potentially mid twenties fuel economy.  The turbo 283 will also generate much more interest when you pop the hood than a more ordinary 'plant.

(**Zora Arkus-Duntov dyno tested a twin TRW-turbocharged, Rochester mechanical fuel injected 283 for use in the CERV I research vehicle back in the early 1960s.  Without intercooling, and with wimpy heads, a flat-tappet cam and the primitive "Corvair" turbos, it made way over 500 h.p. (adjudged too much for the CERV project).  With modern components, you should be able to strain the limits of the production block in a streetable combination.

And forget that stupid advice that was in Hot Rod a few months back. You don't need a sheet-metal intake or custom stainless steel headers or the latest custom ball-bearing turbos or an F1-quality Motec EFI or an all billet rotating assembly to build a fun street-strip turbo V8. Scores of home turbo builders are bringing in small-block turbo projects on "workin' man"-size budgets).

Using the 418 would reduce fuel economy to around the mid teens (at best) without an overdrive, and probably even less, depending on final drive gearing.  It would be the least interesting choice of engines.

If your goal is to impress Jeff "Camaro Craft" Smith, then you'd better sell all of your stash and score a belly-button GMPP LSx engine for the build (Yawn, Zzzzz).  


 
roadkillracing
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 07/25/08
02:17 PM

G'day and thanks for the advice.  I am leaning more towards a street legal nostalgia drag car.  We already have a 77 Camaro (hugger orange rather than red) that we bracket race.  This is the current home of the LS7 which powers the car to high 9's at 146.    

At this time even calling the 59 "street legal" would be kind of a stretch though.  When I purchased the car 25 years ago next month, the front fascia had never been cut for turn signals, the fiberglass cowl was not drilled for wiper transmissions, and it was both a heater and radio delete car.  

I did concede and replaced the front fascia with a new unit with the proper turn signal holes as the original has seen some damage through the years.  However, drilling holes in the virgin cowl for wipers kind of makes me cringe a bit.  The chassis and cage have been updated through the years but havn't been touched in the years that I have had it.

I had kiddingly mentioned to a couple of the local restoration guys that I was considering putting a W motor derivative in the car and they threatened me with bodily harm so I guess that would be out.  

I am actually leaning towards the 418 but using the GM Ramjet.  I have seen one of these modified to a side mount throttle body and it looks somewhat original.  The 418 stuff I have on hand has some pretty serious potential.  Splayed main cap block, Olver 6" billet rods, Callies Stealth crank, and Ross pistons.  I have seen a similar unit dyno at close to 600 hp but with a single dominator and Victor Jr rather than an injection system.  I am sure the Ramjet would kill off some of the HP but would still have visual impact.

I really would like to use the 400 trans as I don't think the fuel economy would be a major issue.  It it was I guess I would be driving an old Metro.  There is a Richmond 4+1 available (using as many parts on hand is important) but getting taller gears for the rear would be an issue.

As far as impressing Mr. "Camaro Craft" Smith, there is no way I am parting with my stash.  But, I think he might rethink the LSx if he saw what was up there.....Hmmmm maybe a couple of pictures for this guy's garage would catch his interest.  


 
dr511scj_1
Enthusiast | Posts: 636 | Joined: 10/03
Posted: 07/25/08
03:06 PM

I can't imagine the resto people being against a period-correct W-powered '59.  

Fiberglass cowl? Is this aftermarket?

The 418 could be made to look mostly correct for a '60s drag car with some paint, valve covers and a proper intake.  Even the Track 1s could hide a bit under some paint.   I'm not sure about the Ramjet though. I'd need to see pictures of the side-mount mod.    Maybe a Gen I Corvette-style dual quad (Offenhauser or Edelbrock) and some AFB-type carbs (Edelbrocks might work) would help pull it off.  It'd probably be worth the 20 or so horsepower penalty for the vintage bling effect.  

Of course on a non-blown drag car, a set of Hilborn injectors poking out always screams "vintage." But a new EFI Hilborn system is ridiculously expensive. Perhaps a used sprint car "take off" mechanical system would be cheap enough (and it could be converted to EFI at home) . . . .

I like the Richmond trans idea if consistency at the strip is not a major issue because "bangin' gears" in an early '60s "rod" feels and sounds right. Unless the rear gears are really low (numerically high), I doubt the Richmond's first gear would be too low. If the combined ratio is more than 10:1, then it might be.  


 
roadkillracing
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 07/25/08
03:36 PM

G'day,  We built a 406 a while back as an original LT1 clone using Brodix heads.  We used original LT1 valve covers, intake, Holley 750 with period correct fuel lines and air cleaner with decal and passed it off.  We painted the block, heads, and fluid damper Chevy orange and nobody ever questioned it.  

After getting rid of the 72 that it was in, we painted the engine all back, dropped it in an 80 and passed it off as an L82.  That worked great until the aluminum rear center section (2.73 gears) grenaded thus freeing up the 4+1.  Luckily it wasn't the original center section so we are going to reinstall the real L82, super t10 and 3.08 rear.

The cowl is the original one installed at the factory with the vent, just no wiper holes.  The car also does not have a convertible top as the area under the rear cover does not have room or mounting hardware for a top.  The car has larger than normal wheel tubs which appear to be factory fiberglass as well.  The car did come with a rermoveable top.

The rear gear in the car is a 3.54 ration which I think may be the tallest gears available for the rear.  When I got the car it had 5.38 gears which are a bit too severe.  When we rebuilt the rear, we found quite a bit of debris packed up above the pinion.  Someone had a catastrophic failure at one time.  We scored the set of 3.54's from a hemi cuda that mother nature had reclaimed.  With the deeper 1st and 2nd in the 400 we thought the 3.54's would work well.  A little too deep for 4+1 though.  


 
John 283
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 07/26/08
11:11 AM

Straight axle, fenderwell headers, pie-crust drag slicks.  


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/726781

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/726791

 
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