The only thing more entertaining than your post in the past 24 hours was seeing that worm Gray Davis concede to the "Governator!"

"A 9 inch ford rear axle is just a rip off of the 50s Oldsmobile rear." 

No, both designs are "ripoffs" of the Hotchkiss axle design.  The salient point is that Ford built millions while Olds and the other GM divisions building inferior Hotchkiss copies didn't build enough to stay in currency.  Ford's axle and differential are now "the standard" and the Olds is a historical curiosity.

"Sure the SB2 head is complex . How come GM really spanked the fords with the old inline valve turbo slant plug , bow tie , 23 degree Pontiac and 18 degree heads ?"

Of course if the Chevy production and over-the-counter inline heads were such "spankmasters," one wonders why GM would have lobbied NASCAR for a non-production, improved copy of the Yates head?

"Ford had canted valve cleveland heads , a gift from GM in 1963 , they had to deliver 4 engines to ford , so BIG BILL would ok the mystery motor to run that year , then 5 years later , the 429 and 351 appear with the same heads that GM had in 63."

By this logic, we should say that monoblock V-8s, such as the venerable SBC,  were "gifts' from Henry Ford. Or overhead valve engines were "gifts" from the Pre-GM Buick Motor Company. Or DOHC engines were "gifts" from Peugeot!    The simple facts are this:

1. Big Bill France wanted Chevrolet in the show so badly that he allowed them to run a non-stock cheater engine in 1963. NASCAR's expediency would become a trend that undermined the original foundations of the sport.


2. The Mark II "mystery motor" was a reasonable and economical compromise between the production efficiency of "wedge" head engines and the technical superiority of hemispherical-head engine designs.


3. GM never saw fit to make this design available in any production engine less than 366 cubic inches (366 is, of course a truck only engine. The smallest passenger engine was 396).


4. The simple fact is that Ford exploited the poly-angle head design more than did Chevrolet.  No other GM division even attempted a non-wedge production engine (excluding the Cosworth Vega) until Olds' Quad 4 (which we will remember as a "gift" from Peugeot)

"I think GM is on the eve of winning another factory championship for CHEVROLET."

A championship tainted by NASCAR's blatant favoritism, as I detailed in my original post.  Chevy got to run its 2004 Monte Cheato and its non-production SB2, while Ford had to soldier on with a 1997 Taurus and an early '90s Yates update of the celebrated Cleveland head.  So much for "equality!"  NASCAR clearly thought Ford won too many times in 2002, so John Darby and that big oaf Helton apparently decided it was time for a "make good" year.  Since well over 1/4 of the folks buying tickets are Dale Jr. fans, pumping up the Bowtie was likely to do little damage to the box office and might have produced a "storybook" championship for the #8.

"Ford and Chrysler cheat their ***** off week in and week out . Look at Ryan Newmans " amazing " fuel milage every week . . . ."

Apparently Ford doesn't "cheat" enough!  

This is a baseless allegation.  Penske IS a notorious cheater (read Mark Donohue's "The Unfair Advantage" about how Penske's Trans-am championship Camaros were huge cheaters), but he's also got an excellent R&D operation. We don't know if Newman is benefiting from some "creative engineering" or if they have made a legal advance in the state-of-the-art.  Ryan Newman apparently is an excellent driver, which may be a factor as well.  

Question: was Bill Elliott cheating when he won 11 races in 1985 for Ford. Or the Winston Million?   Sometimes, hard work just pays off big time.

I suspect that if there is any cheating in the Newman camp,  it is in the area of traction control.

READ FLAT RATE TECH . COM , find out the REAL truth about the Ford Motor Company .

Ah yes, the musings of disgruntled techs trying to force another union on FoMoCo.  It would seem that Ford's improved quality is cutting into the paychecks of some dealership mechanics a little too much . . . .

Of course I don't measure rod bolt stretch.  I don't get in the habit of reusing old fasteners that are of such critical nature.  Use new stuff instead of wasting time on junkyard parts.  The last time I reused old rod bolts was the 460 I built when I was 15 in auto shop in high school....  That was, let's see, 21 years ago.   Try 9000 rpm on my last engine.  This one is a stroker, so rpms will be kept around 7500.  Oh yeah, brand new H-beams...not used mickey mouse junkyard parts with .020 stetched bolts.  

New or used checking rod bolt stretch is always a good thing. After breaking in a motor checking and retorquing the rods and mains only insures the life of the motor. New bolts can be bad right out of the box. You should also retorque your heads, header bolts, intake, and readjust your valves.

Also SausageStroker57ford what happened, that small block ford couldn't handle 9 grand, so now your making it a stroker hoping to make more power with less rpm. It still won't live at 7500.

Hey those H-beams press fit or full floater.  

I did learn that winning an argument on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics....You're still a retard.  I also learned that you can't win an argument with a backwoods Chevy nut either, as they are always right, no matter how wrong they are.  Adieu, boys....  

Nothing wrong with the last one, just don't have it anymore.  I just wanted to try something new.  Rods are floaters, pressed pins are for women, along with hydraulic cams, automatics, power steering and AC.  New bolts can be bad right out the box, tis true.  And, yes, you'll likely have the caps off two or three times before you button the bottom end back up.  However, the first time you torque the rod bolts, you should be able to feel any stretch, like from an unhardened bolt.  If you can't, maybe you should be collecting stamps instead of building high performance engines.  When you get the rods back from the machine shop, they are, ideally, ready to go.  I trust my machinist.  Do you?  If not, time to find another.  

oh yeah feel any rod bolt stretch, can you feel .006 of a inch stretch, because thats what every 3/8th would should be stretched too, a stretch gauge is needed no doubt about it, you think your machinist can judge that, hah, and really id rather be my own machinist in most cases, the only work a man can trust is his own. Oh yeah and your little comment on winning a argument over the internet, well this is what i say What ive found out over is winning with a ford is like winning the special olympics, your still a retard, and your still a diesel mechanic

Is it Robert Yates behind the " Yates " Head or #### Maskin , owner of Dart Heads ???? Boy those Robert Yates cars really tear up the asphalt these days

You could argue , smart guy , that mystery motor heads are copies of Chrypar polyspherical heads on the 318 , but we know there is the old multi valve angle "canted " design on the chevys . just to drop names , #### Keinath did that job in 62 .

How about those Ron Sperry intake ports on the Gen 3 heads , nobody ever thought that design would work . The truth is , those ports work better than anything else out there .

I agree , we should team up on the import guys , but I don't see them here anymore .

Bill Elliott , cheater ???? , how come in 85 , when he was so freaking dominant , that no other Ford was running away with races , like the Million Dollar Spaz was . Not even 28 with the best engine builder , Waddell Wilson and Driver , Cale Yarbourough in the business at the time , could it have been aero tricks , like a smaller car that could fit the primative templates of the day . Before Elliot , it used to be fun watching the clevlands blow up , thank to it's crappy oiling system and worn out components , because ford had no factory racing program from 1971 to 1982 . Not having the racing program at Ford , which unlike GM who always made high performance parts available at local warehouses for speedy delivery , ford stopped building any heavy duty equipment . When the cleveland was discontinued , you had to go to Austrailia for parts ( like 04 GTO LOL ) . Ernie Elliot used to be on the phone regularly to Smokey , the man who invented how to get around templates .

I believe financially and technolgically inferior car companies should be given breaks . Picture NASCAR as The United Nations .

Who compared the Northstar to Modular Explosion champ ??

I think the 96 Impala out ETs a Marauder

I hear the 92 Typhoon out ETs a Porsche Cayenne for like 50k less

Rodney King says .........Can't we all jus git along

in callY- fornia 

Is Ford Motor company run as some sort of a White Trash Royal family - good CEOs are born , not made , go get em Bill ?

How come consumers reports does not do an in depth analysis of the the great Cobra low horsepower buy back and now Ford's *** cousin Mazda having to do a , thats right , low horsepower buy back of it's much anticipated RX 8 ?

How come ford could not figure out how to make 3.8 V6 head that would not crack or a 6.0 diesel injector that would work right ?

Don't worry the blue oval stuff is just as crappy as always . The problem is all of us knuckle draggers get paid on piecework and Ford cut the labor times fifty percent in the last 5 years . Unions have their own drawbacks , like Marxism and Organized crime  , but it might be a good way to get under Fords skin !  

My recollection is that Cale was only running part time in '85 at only the big events and that his Thunderbird was often competitive, but a step behind Elliott's.  One of Ernie's secrets was to combind the best of Windsor and Cleveland families.

Everybody had small template speedway cars in '85 (just compare Petty's 1984 Firecracker 400 winning Grand Prix to a street version). As Junior Johnson illustrated with the Banana-shaped Galaxie in the 60s, if there's no template, it ain't cheatin.'  That being said, NASCAR still gave GM too much on the current 2004 Monte Cheato.  And also when they allowed the Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 and the Monte Carlo Aero Coupe  in '86 just to stop Bill Elliott. 

You correctly identify the main reason Chevy was able to catch up in NASCAR in  the 1970s:  Iacocca's hatred of everything Bunkie Knudsen and Red Poling's bean-counter mentality worked to almost totally shut down performance at Ford.  Only Bill Stroppe at Baja and Walter Hayes and Michael Kranefuss over in Europe (two things Iacocca wasn't involved in) kept the flame alive until Iacocca was canned.

Until Bill Ford worked his way through the hierarchy, no Ford family member has run the show since the Deuce stepped down over twenty years ago. Donald Petersen was about the best CEO any Detroit automaker ever had.  He turned it around and should get major props.  

Consumer Reports hates horsepower, so I'm surprised they aren't opposing the horsepower recalls (not buy-backs).  The '03 Cobra (which makes at least the advertised 390h.p. would sprain their wussy necks, so they'd better stick with "sporty cars" they can handle--such as the Prelude)

The 6.0 Powerstroke injector problem was limited to a few early production examples.  It has been fixed.  Ford has built millions of 3.8s since the early '80s. Head cracking-absent overheating- is a rare problem.

Need I remind anyone of GM's fiascos--Vega 4, Quad 4 overheating, Fiero engine fires, Tech 4 broken cranks, that time bomb called the SBC 305, Pontiac 301, Cadillac 8/6/4, Oldsmobile diesel, the Corvair . . . . 

Hey Gib what's up, I think that old SausageStroker might know something about rod stretch, he's been stretching his sausage for years, I bet he has a real feel for it. lmao!!

Sausage the only retard is you, and your pathetic come backs. You know the only come back you'll ever have is the cum on your back.  

How do you measure bolt streatch and how much do you want?  I'm assuming if there's too much the bolts are junk?  

You measure the rod bolt before you torque it and then measure it after it is torqued. I'm not sure what the allowable amount of stretch is, but I'm sure SausageStroker57 could tell you since he knows a lot about stretching thinks.  

.006 for a 3/8th bolt

.012 for a 7/16th bolt i think

It's odd that the only comebacks you two use are homosexually oriented.  Why is that, boys?  Lay off the porn sites and talk cars, `kay?