Well, the Subaru WRX STi is pretty quick, so is the Mitsubishi EVO VIII.

There are a lot of ricers out there, and those who say they aren't are still kinda rice to me.  They don't even know the basics of an engine, and yet they say they are "challenging" themselves, so they think V-8 guys are dumb because they only know 2-valves, one cam, and big cubes.

Going with something simple and a lot of cubes is being smart, period.

Getting into something more complex and having a total lack of knowledge is plain stupid.  Those ricers wouldn't even know how to make power from a domestic V-8.

But there are a lot of ricers in the domestic camp also.  Big wings-n-rims, loud exhausts, body kits, stickers, all show, no go, all slow.  Just like the import ricers who hate domestics, there are ignorant elitists who like domestics and hate imports.  If they actually knew what the hell was going on within their own camp, and what was going on in the other one, they would get a better understanding, but it's a lot easier to be ignorant and stupid and just mouth off and look retarded.

CarCraft already talked about a lot of Mustang guys being "ricey" and giving some respect to legit Supras and RX-7s.

Both sides can learn a lot from each other, but the import side needs to learn a lot more...

The SRT 4 neon doing 13s for under 20 grand today and also thats only what a .2 second slower than the 26 thousand dollar sti and evo 8 thats not impressive. Rember the RS ford Escorts were the first 2 liter doing 13s stock never sold in america but neither were the skyines but everyone knows about that car but dont rember the Escorts I ponder that one. NOT ONLY THAT THE OMNI AND THE DAYTONA TURBO WAS THE ORGINALE SPORT COMPACTS.

87 WRAITH MOVIE WAS THE FIRST 2 LITER TURBO RACEN A BLOWN V8 CORVETTE.

Also must be pointed out mustangs had svo turbo in the 80s also. BEST IMPORTS TODAY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN COPY CAT AMERICAN 80S AUTOMOBILES. EXAMPLE GRAND NATIONAL 300ZX 3000GT WITH TWIN TURBO AND PILL CARS NEVER DID WHAT A FULL BODY SEDAN DID IS THAT TECHNOLOGY GOING SMALLER AND SLOWER OR BIGGER FASTER AND ABOVE ALL DOING IT FIRST.

i SAID IT BEFORE IMPORTS IN AUTOMOTIVE HISTORY HAS NEVER HAD ONE ORGINAL IDEA IN THE ADVANCEMNT OF THE AUTOMOBILE.

   ON THE SUBJECT OF TURBONETICS WHAT MAKES THEM SO SAD IS ALL THERE SELLING IS MODFIED VERSIONS OF GM OLD GRAND NATIONALS TURBOS.

Whats sad about it all is they dont deny it.

Againe imports have never had one contributing factor of the advancement of the automobile.

Acura=alwaysa cuaght under real automobiles

Honda=hopless ordinary non driven americans

Vw=value wanted

Nissan=national institute of stupid slow american nobodies

BMW=broke mans wheels

Toyota=terrible on your old tired ass

Lexus=loosers exit us

Infiniti=internationaly fd in the intelligence

Mercedes=musty engines ragged cars every driver energeticaly stupid

Bently=badly engineered nobody trips like you

I find it hard to believe that you can say that "imports" never contributed to auto history.

Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz ring a bell?

Variable valve timing, variable length intake runners?

Dodge=owned by Germans.

Neon SRT=FWD crap.  I could care less if it's domestic or import, wrong wheel drives suck.

Rather have the AWD STi or Evo VIII.  Hell, I think both Hot Rod and Car Craft recognized them being they are factory hot rods and can hang with a C5.

I think this guy needs to wake up, a import that is going to hang with a C5 vette, I don't think so. Can either of those cars pull a "G" in the skid pad, NO. But the vette will and put some sticky tires on it and watch it pull over a "G". Also your comparing cars that have turbos with one that doesn't. It's not like the vette needs a turbo to smoke those cars, but to make things equal lets through a ProCharger on the vette.  Now we have a car that pulls over a "G" in the skid pad and has over 500HP in stock trim. Those imports still going to keep up, only in your dreams.

Also what is up with varible length intake runners, can you tell me how this works. Does this only work on imports. How do you change the length of a intake runner?

Rice is for mice

Muscle is for men

I Know your utterly insaine saying words like dalimer and benz . I said the contributing factors of the automotive industry like in technology not in the well rounded automobile or not in alot of money for a sedan with a peppy engine and variable timen isnt anything new been around since the 70s but havent been realy made possible or realy looked into until lately.

On the subject of over head cams and variable cams they have yet to produce anything that has beaten the old school single cam v8s.

Why I say this lets look in recent years. Its 2003 porsche has a twin turbo 400 hp suv that dont out run 1993 GMC Typhoon suv that was single turbo and awd. Not only that the r34 skylines today are only running similar times to the GNX and the 89TTA which they were built almost 15 years ago .

Again there is no technology there is only two ways to produce hp from a piston engine VARIABLE TIMEN ISNT ONE OF THE THEM. One increase force down on the piston : power adders , compression , boost, Strokers etc,. Second is to increase Surface area of the piston assumen you keep force constant through out the area.

Look at it like this I dont care if you got a genius running back and forth maken sure each valve is open at the right time and closes . That dont make for technology or more hp it only broadens the hp Range of the car . Which variable timen MSD has been doing since the 70s same with other performance ignition systems. Variable valves is only adding a third valve into the game and taken one out at times this is mechanical advancement not a computer controlled operartion . .

Fact there is no replacment for displacment and there is not one import car that has contributed to the advancment of the automobile.

Name it and ill educate you one it.

Do you know what a "G" is?

A C5 pulls under .95g.  The WRX STi and EvoVIII are AWD.  STi, .91g, does the 1/4 in 13.1, high 12 if conditions are right.  Evo VII, .95g, 1/4 13.4.  They can easily hang with a C5.

Prochargered C5?  Why when you can get a ZO6?  Those things pull .98g+, sometimes "more than a G" (1.05g).  They can smoke either car and a whole lot others that cost nearly double the ZO6, and the ZO6 gets better gas mileage than other 400 hp cars.

Variable intake runners adjust length and/or I.D (inner diameter). of the intake runners to move or switch the torque curve up or down the rpm range, in order to optimize the inertial supercharging effect at each rpm. 

Altering the length optimizes the volumetric efficiency from the harmonic waves that go on within an intake runner (different from RamCharger concept).  Increasing the length increases the volume within the runner and once that air mass is moving, it keeps moving.  Shortening it reduces friction and has better breathing.

I.D changes are velocity vs. airflow.  Big I.D, more airflow, less velocity, and the engine makes more top end and loses low end torque (curve moved up).  Small I.D, more velocity, less airflow, and the engine makes more low end torque (curve down low)

In a Gen I small block way it would be between a single plane vs. a dual plane.  Duals have longer intake runners and tend to build more low end torque over top end hp.  Single has shorter runners but have a larger volume, which tends to build more top end hp over low end torque.  You "could" make it so the plenum divider can retract at higher rpm, and that "might" give top end gains, so you could say it's a variable plenum intake.

There are a number of different way to implement variable length intake manifolds.
One way is to have long runners, but with a bypass.  As rpm rises and air demand increases, the bypass opens and air is taken from there, shortening the runner length.  The easiest and most common, Toyota was one of the first to do this and Merc Benzes do it.  I think the Lamborghini Murcielago has a similar setup (Variable Geometry Intake).
Another way is to have 2 sets of runner, long and short.  As rpm rises and air demand increases, the short runner butterfly valves open and air flows through there.  This way also allows two different I.Ds.  Honda VTEC systems use this (a lot of Honda guys don't know this).
Then there is continuously variable, usually a 2-piece runner which slides within the other to alter the length.  It's like having an Hilborn injection except that the trumpet can move up or down to alter the length.  BMW uses this in the form of a snail shell to keep it compact.  Ferraris also have continuous variable length.  This system optimizes the most rpms.  The others are "staged", one or the other.

It is not just for imports.  Any engine can use any form.  The Ford Duratec V-6 has 2 sets of runners (and whatever Mazda and Jaquar variants).
Imports use it the most because they use small displacement engines and need all the help they can get with their tiny torque and hp numbers.  One intake for low end torque, the other for top end hp.  Works best in conjunction with variable valve timing/lift.
They basically have two torque curves.  The continuously variable ones are programmed to adjust to produce max torque at every rpm, so it's constantly moving the torque curve up or down the rpm range.  Some Ferraris implement continuously variable length intakes and infinitly variable lift and timing.

It's just GM knows how to build a 2-valve, pushrod, emissions compliant engine with decent mpg so they never really needed that stuff, and it also costs money.

To make more power you need more air with fuel PERIOD.

When combusted, pushes on to the piston.

The pistons turn the crankshaft and create torque.

Torque and rpm gets you your horsepower.  Horsepower is just different math.

The easiest and cheapest way to increase torque (get more air into the engine) is increase displacement.  Forced induction.  Nitrous oxide introduces oxygen when the molecules are split from heat.  Cooler air has more oxygen.  Reducing restrictions like high flow air filters.  All no brainers.

Variable this and that get more air into the engine by raising the volumetric efficiency, that's it.  What does that translate to...more torque=more horsepower.  At lower rpms and high rpms, it helps get more air into the engine.  Nothing wrong with that.

Rod stroke ratio plays an important part in the capability of making torque and mechanical rpm limit.  To have an engine of equal displacement, you can either have a big bore and short stroke, or small bore and long stroke.  The big bore engine can rev higher, and make more top end hp.  The small bore can't but can create more low end torque.  It's like comparing a 327 to a 383 or a 427 vs a 454.

Just because it has a larger piston surface area, doesn't mean it will make more power.  So what, dished pistons, assuming you can keep compression the same, make more power? 

Ferrari, BMW, Lamborghini.  They are non-domestic companies you know.

Look at GM's Vortec 4200 4.2L inline-6 for their GMT360 platform (Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainer).  It uses cam phasing and it can make more torque than competing V-8s.  Northstars also have variable valve timing.

Altering intake valve timing alters valve opening and closing events, and that affects air going in and out of the engine and power output.  Altering exhaust valve timing affects scavenging.  Both affect overlap.  No brainer, just we do it manually and set it once, since the intake and exhaust lobes are on the same cam.  Same goes with swapping intake manifolds.

Wow, I'm surprised to seee someone who actually knows what they're talking about in this post.  So many people forget that import's aren't JUST Japan.  When TubbedCamaro says that Benz didn't do anything for technology, I think he's forgetting that HE INVENTED THE GOD DAMNED CAR!  But when people talk #### about imports and say how they never contribute anything, I think it usually refers to Japanese imports, being the #### ones.  And Japan really hasn't contributed anything.

TubbedCamaro, you keep on mentioning that Superchargers "force the piston down"  do you honestly think that's how they work?  Power is made by getting as much air/fuel mixure into the cylinder as possible.  Superchargers/turbochargers force air into the cylinder which is mixed with more fuel to increase the amount of air/fuel in the cylinder and increase the force put on the piston by having a bigger combustion.  The supercharger doesn't blow the piston down with it's air pressure....  But as for the rest of your posts, I don't like you.  You're the ignorant know-nothing type that is the reason for musclecar people being stereotyped.  You sound just like the average 15 year old ricer to me.  Instead of stating facts, you simply go into "I know everything and my opinion is all that matters and everythnig else sucks" mode.  Tell me, how long IS your mullet?

Hey dumbass you got me confused with someone else  I didn't say any of those things. I guess if your comprehension level was more than a 5 year olds you would of got it right. I have two posts in this discussion and none of them say anything about what you are saying I said. So pull your head out of your ass and find out who said the stuff and fix your post. Nothing like a red neck hillbilly to screw things up. And how long is your mullet. I think the superbee says it all.

You're right, it appears that it was godspeed777 that mentioned the supercharger forcing the piston down thing and some of the ignorant ricer mumbojumbo, and I do apologize for my mistake.  But you're still a dumbass, and you can make all the Mopars are for Mullets jokes you want, doesn't bother me.

lmfao.  I'm trying to decide if that is a good thing or a bad thing?  

Hey goto www.mullet.com and check out superbee's pics.  

I think that you'll find that I actually have pretty short hair.  I don't have the patients to grow a mullet.  Maybe you could give me some tips?

Your the one that started the mullet talk, so I figured you had one. But if you goto the web site I told you about, you can get a pretty good idea on how to grow one. For me, I'll stick with the old buzz cut. Mullets are for f*gs.