I would like to see a project car like a 1981-1988 G-body like a nice 1987 Monte Carlo SS (okay I am biased!) they are so much like the old muscle cars with a full-frame RWD, enough room for the wife 'n kids and they aren't really that heavy. I might use this time to brag about mine... I bought it new and it was stolen and recovered twice! The last time the idiots ruined the tranny so I pulled the 400 SBC motor out of my 1978 K20 4X4 (put a big block back in) did all the good stuff to the block, used Trick Flow aluminum heads, a retro-hyd roller cam, a TPI off of a F-body and hung a T-56 6-speed (from the boneyard! In keeping with Car Craft's tradition no high priced 'aftermarket' tranny for me!)it kicks butt, the only car that I ever built or owned that I enjoy driving EVERYTIME I get behind the wheel!  

Back in the 80's I had a GREAT idea being a former 1965 GTO owner I couldn't believe Pontiac didn't use the G-body to bring the GTO back! I know they made a 2+2 but this was with the ugly aero-coupe (not very muscle car looking) but look at this image and tell me this wouldn't have made a great car with GTO badges? Of course it would have had the 350 SBC instead of the 305 (so-called High Output) L69 that the Monte SS came with. They would of sold a ton of them!

Hey Wulff - Good point on this.  I admit that I wasn't real partial to the body style when they came out.  But when one considers what the Cutlass-Monte Carlo (even if they did one)-Buick Specials- all those cars morphed into in their last days (weak front wheel drive and ordinary), I now think the G-bodys rock.  Heck, even that 2+2 you just attached for people to look at looks good.  I have never even seen one around here and you got to respect it at least for rarity sake.  Here about 2 months ago some guy had his Monte SS hit and he was wondering if he should put it back together.  To me it was a no brainer - the car was otherwise beautiful, and it just wasn't hurt that bad.  I think he ended up selling it to somebody here on the board for a song.  Whoever it was got a nice car.  As you say, these cars have not gotten much press and it's unfortunate.  Your point that they share much of what counts (such as a full frame) with other muscle cars is totally right, and to me (at least) it makes them stronger candidates for street rods, track cars, and even stock cars.  I still know of some guys that are using them for stock cars, but with growing age, body parts become too expensive to bend up every weekend.  I think that at this point, their age would dictate that they be given more perminant status and be preserved in one form or the other.  I looked at a black SS down at a car lot here in town, and it was OK.  It would have made a great slate on which to build.  The guy wanted too much for it though.  If I could have pick it up for a decent price, I would have covered it up and put it in the barn for a future project.  Bowser  

Hey, you sound pretty smart Bowser! Glad you liked the pic of the Pontiac... In 1987 when I bought my SS I would have bought the Pontiac 2+2 but they only had the aero-coupes, there were a few 2+2's running around the streets of Mesa but I haven't seen them for a few years... one was real ratty looking a real shame as they are really rare.
A few years ago Hot Rod magazine did a nice build up of a 421 cid small block in a 1985 Monte SS that really was a sweet ride but is just disappeared like all the non-CHEVELLE/CAMARO cars!!
Maybe it's like the 400 small blocks, I have been fooling around with them since the mid-70's and thought what a great powerplant in such a lightweight package but the magazines didn't get behind them and everyone thought they were only good as a boat anchor.. then for some reason in the last few years all a sudden they are the best thing since white sliced bread! IMO the magazines are to blame about having all the Camaros and Chevelles (even Tri-Five's) projects.. they sometimes act like the other models don't exist. Don't get me wrong 'cuz I love those cars but how many more magazine 'projects' can you come up with and be original? The companies that advertise in the magazines have a lot to do with it I think as I was recently talking to a Goodmark guy and said "you need to have more G-body stuff like different hoods, not just one kind of cowl-induction hood... these are popular cars and have a pretty good following" He made a smart-a$$ reply "Maybe where you live they are popular but not here, if you want something different it looks like you better get out the tinsnips". I think if I see one more Goodmark Camaro shoved down our throats I'm gonna choke!

It seems like if the magazines do have a G-body it is a Grand National with all kinds of overpriced high tech stuff on them.. not really a 'project car' just a car to use to advertise some of the parts! I hardly ever read High Performance Chevy and Super Chevy anymore because they don't do anything to save money they are just a large "catalog" of their advertiser's parts! My SS has a 6-speed that I built using junkyard F-body parts but if a magazine has an article about installing a 5 or 6 speed in a car they always install a "kit" (BIG BUCKS!) how many mags tells people that you can modify the f-body clutch/brake pedals and bolt them into a g-body? Although Car Craft is a LOT better when it comes to saving money they still don't seem to be in tune with those of us that scour the boneyards for drivetrain parts like the T-56. Everything on my car's drivetrain was built by GM except the flywheel and I only used that because a 400 needs it to use the proper starter. Oh and the starter I used was out of the F-body I pulled the t-56 out of NOT a high dollar aftermarket.
Sorry, didn't mean to soapbox hear.. it just seems like the magazines think those companies are god-like!

I'll shut up now...

I'm new to Car Crafting, have been reading the mag and studying everything I can for the past few years but it's time for me to start getting greasy soon here.  So I'm looking for a first project, it must be dirt cheap and drivable with a v8 and some performance potential. 

I've found a 79 Grand Am "2door v8 4 speed *** special" asking $788.

I'll have to go check it out soon, so what do you think?  I don't know much about Pontiacs.  Do you know anything about this "T.A. special" designation?  What motor did this come with, a low compression 301?  I'm wondering how well this car would respond to basic performance modifications ie a well-matched headers/intake/cam combo.  Any swaps you can recommend or other advice about this car would be well appreciated. 

You don't have to shut up.  The fact is that I was somewhat shocked when they did a piece on AMCs and engine buildups for them.  I like AMCs (although I wouldn't trade my Cutlass or 442 for one).  They, like the G body cars we are talking about are respectable American made iron that deserve a place in a car crafter magazine.  The other thing they did that was good was the 460 buildup - while I'm typically not into Fords, I have done at least one 429 version of that engine and they are respectable as well.  To say the least, your assessment of the Buick Grand National is well taken, but it's for certian that those are collectable cars and should be left in as much original condition as possible.  They really shouldn't be "souping them up" because they were fast cars to begin with.  I looked into buying one in decent original condition and prices are outragous for running cars that are just restorable.  A nice one is totally out of line. I agree with your assessment that much of this stuff arises out of sponsorship.  You can't help but notice that anything that gets exposure in the magazine will sell outside the magazine.  Heck, I'm affected by what they show - I always hit the Edelbrock booth at the NHRA Nationals when they are in town to see if their bull in the books is as good as they say.

The sad thing that I see so often around here are Monte Carlos and especially G-body Pontiacs that have just been slashed and hacked by people who don't know what they are doing.  The 2+2s you are talking about would make me sick to see one that way.   Unfortunate, but as my wife tells me - I can't save the world.  I have enough projects now to glide me into retirement.  Hope that this might spur CC into doing a G-body build up, or at least to do a car dump search for a good builder.  They do it on enough Camaros and Mustangs - it just would be refreshing to see them make a ground pounder out of a G-Body ----  Anything.  Pontiac Cutlass or Chev take your pick. Keep up the good work Wulff.  Bowser.

Hello V8 and welcome to the car crafting hobby! I love Pontiacs and only switched to Chevrolet's when Pontiac stopped making their own motors.
Your possible project car sounds like a pretty cool ride, I did have a couple of questions you say it is a Grand Am but the *** stands for Trans Am.. are you sure it's not a Limited Edition Nascar Hurst Pontiac? These are very, very rare (233 built)You did say it was a V8 so it should have a Chevy 305, if it was a V6 it would be the 3.8L (231cid).
It would respond very well to minor hop ups as they were getting smart and dropping the weight by 1979. This body style makes a very nice foundation for a cool ride. It has a full frame and is nice and sturdy rear wheel drive!
You could hop up the 305 (you might want to get some numbers off the motor so I can check it, some previous owner may have dropped in a 350) I always say there is no replacement for displacement so I would be inclined to pick up a 350 as you are already up almost 50 horsepower and the torque would really help. There are a lot of tricks we can do to help you build your first project. I think it is a very good car and the price is very good especially considering it has a 4-speed.
Let me know if you can find out a little more about it. And I'll help ya!
Best to ya, Phil (Wulff406)  

You sure have that right Bowser, I too like AMC's, in fact I repect all the American automaker's that tried their hand at muscle cars. Did you ever see a Rambler Rebel? This was a pretty cool car with a 327 (AMC motor) and 4-speed with a decent cold air intake, if only AMC had dropped the name "Rambler" a lot sooner it would have been better!! ha ha!
Maybe we might see some more g-body stuff in CC... that would be cool!
 

Ok I'm officially a car crafter moron.

The "TA special" thing didn't make sense to me either, but after looking into it I found it means Tow Away special.  The guy at the lot says it runs fine, the people drove it to the shop, but he won't give it a temp sticker to drive away because it won't pass emissions.  Damn emissions!  Being from Montana I'd forgotten about emissions but I'm living in Boulder now and will have to learn to deal with it.  My hope is that they'll be able to make it pass if I buy it, so I'll have to go check it out and see if I think it's worth the risk. 

Here's the VIN info:

2G27W9P589579
Decodes as a 1979 Grand Am
Style=2-door Coupe Notchback
Built at the Pontiac, Mi. plant
Engine=V8/301ci. 4bb.
Serial # 589579

So it's got the pontiac 301 engine.  Don't know much about that except that edelbrock's poncho manifold only bolts to the 326-455, so as a general indicator there might not be much aftermarket support there.  I'd be open to the idea of dropping in a nice cheap chevy small block, but I don't know how cheap or easy this would be for a car originally equipped with a pontiac motor.  Will the bellhousing bolt up? I have no idea.  If anyone can inform me about this please do.  Anyway for now I should concentrate on getting the thing home.

thanks, Tom

If it's a true pontiac, then the best exchange would be with a buick, olds, or another pontiac engine.  Thats what they mean by BOP, and for a beginner it would be best to stick in that engine group.  Pontiac 350s are good, but the whole line (350 - 400 - 455 - I think there was a 427 as well) all are essentially the same bell housing and would exchange easily.  Oldsmobile engines are my specialty, and there are many real good options there too.  The early 400s (rare but sometimes they can be found) as well as the 425s are awsome engines.  I have a 330 in my Cutlass that sports big block big valve F  heads, and it is sweet.  The 455s are a good engine, but the earlier ones (D casting and earlier I believe) are the best.  They have high nickel content in the cast iron making them very durable.  Buicks would be my last pick.  If you can get a 455 for a good price and have the mega bucks to do the oiling modifications, and bottom end improvements, then they can be real contenders.  After market aluminum heads are big bucks, but are really key to getting those spinning hard.  The nice thing?  A fully dressed 455 Buick only weighs about 50 lbs more than a Chev 350.  They are pricey though.  My advice?  Get a Pontiac engine and go through it.  I have a friend who races Pontiacs and swears by them.  I have learned recently that some of the big block pontiacs have four bolt main caps which is a plus you wont find in buick or olds.  The fact that you found a G-body with a factory 4 speed is a big plus, and is probably worth buying the car just for that.  Even if it's a rust bucket, those parts can go on a nice body and will work just as well.  Any way you look at it I think the car you are looking at is a must buy.   For the bell housing?  No it will not bolt up to a Chev engine.  You may be able to get the bell housing to fit that tranny to the chev engine, but it sounds like a pain to me.  Stick to what you know will work.  One word of advice - make sure that with what ever engine you get, the crank is drilled with a pilot hole for your tranny.  I think that most are, and if they aren't they can be drilled during the rebuild.  Seems silly, but, it's a small detail that can really screw up your day if it isn't there.  Keep us informed - Bowser  

Yea - My Mom drove a 1967 Rambler Rebel 2 door HT when I was in 7th grade.  It was a nice ride and I got to drive it a few times.  It was pretty fast, but didn't have the 4 speed.  You know, we have been talking about G-body cars, and it's amazing that you start seeing them on the road more once they are in the conversation.  I looked on Ebay and there are some pretty nice looking California cars that are just going for dirt.  A couple of the Cutlass(s)  were down right beautiful and had all the raw material all ready intact and ready to hop up - like bucket seats, consel shifts, and V-8s and in down right good shape body and interrior wise. Heck - anything from California or the desert states are a pretty good gamble.  Most of the cars here in Washington (western washington) are good bets because we don't get snow and ice here.  What I also noticed is some of the first G-bodies that came out are a year (give or take) from being emissions exempt up here, so you can take the cats off and chuck em a bloody mile.  It occurred to me that probably one of the biggest reasons why I never gave G-bodies much thought was the age factor, and the turds in Olympia that enacted emission testing to begin with.  I guess they had to, but it still seems like all too much hooey.  You see a stupid dodge minivan go through the test station smoking like a stove and it passes, and they won't pass my Iroc because of the gas cap.  I have a long fuse, but it almost went to the end that day.  It's like the gods were against me - the first time I took it through the station, well almost through, the engine quit running and I had to push it out of the line.  Embarrassing.  One tow truck, one fuel pump, and $600 later, I got it into the test stall and they failed me on my gas cap (to the moon Alice).  I went to the parts store and got a new one and the guy didn't make me wait in line again (yes - there is a Santa Clause).  I digress.  That car the V8Drinker has on the line sounds to me like one of those gotta-havits.  He has the whole shmeer, and it probably has disc brakes and all those other goodies too.  Heck, its "spam in a can" as far as I can see.  And if it has the Pontiac motor in it, to me that's just icing on the cake.  If it doesn't pass emissions, have em knock off $250, and tow it home.  Yea - he is going to have to do some work to get the thing to fly, but thats car crafting. 

Well Wulff, thats my nightly editorial.  Keep up the good work - Bowser 

hello   I couldn'y buy a monty SS  when they where new '86-'87  was still in high school till '89 and at  18g's  + 

they where out...

but  I now have one  

they are very nice cars handle great   much better than  my 70 chevelle did stock  but the chevelle even tired was/is faster...

I want to install a 350/383 in mine (the monty) but  the sniffer might make that kinda  hard...

the 2+2 was only 1500 made 

I like the idea of doing a g-bod build up.  I've got an 84 Monte Carlo (it's the classic, not an SS)  And a buddy I work with has an ultra cool 84 hurst olds, but he's leaving it stock 'cause it's collectable.  I personally want an 8.5 rear out of a GN, T-Type, 442, etc  since it'll bolt up in place of my peg-leg 7.5 rear.  I was even thinking of doing a "GN in a Monte wrapper"  sort of thing with a wrecked T-type, BUT for Car Craft I'd like to see a V-8 of some sort.  Maybe even an 8 point rollbar and a project car with actual speed.

                                                                         Brainsip

Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I went to check out the Grand Am and I couldn't do it.  It was covered in surface rust, the hood and quarters were dented and one was rusted through, and the interior was shot with pieces of headliner hanging down.  It killed me to pass up a factory 4-speed but I think that living in Colorado I can find a G-body in better shape not rusted out, so that I can focus on building power rather than body work.  Thanks for your input, and I'll keep looking.

Tom

I owned 2 g-bodies A 78monte And an 80 with t-tops which I would still have but it was stolen. It was recovered 3 hours later, they used it to rob a car wash, a cabbie was following them so they threw the t-tops at him. The insurance said the cost of replacement t-tops was 3000CDN I only paid 1600 for the car so they cut me a 2000 cheque and we called it even. I should have bought it back but I had no storage for it at the time. 2 weeks later I saw a set of t-tops for 200 in the auto trader D'OH.

I miss my monte. That was 8 years ago. I would take an aerocoupe in a second. I have never seen one in Canada(Praries) but I have seen 2 of the pontiac 2+2's. If anyone has a t-top aerocoupe with a grey interior I am intereted.

Thanks for listening :>( (tear)

Yea Tom - I was pretty sure it would be a rust crate, but all the parts off that would work on any other G-body.  It sounds like a basket case, but if you were to find a good G-body, you could use the 4 speed car as the donor.  For the money that we were talking ($600 bucks wasn't it?), you could grind up that much dough car hopping in the wrecking yard pulling all that stuff together.  I think what Wulff has been trying to point out here is that you can get this stuff in kit form, but the expense of those is considerable.  That car probably has disk brakes and a special third member (a posi?) that might save you money in the long run.  The average pick a parts aren't giving their parts away anymore either.  Wulff was able to do it, but where we live, they wouldn't be parting a Grand Am like that anyway.  They would be selling it whole for doing just what I'm suggesting here.  Go with what your gut tells you, but if you want a 4 speed car it would be wise to at least consider buying the one with all the goodies then doing a transfer onto a nicer body.  Just some food for thought - Bowser.