I've been a long time subscriber of Car Craft, and after opening up the current issue, I was quite unhappy.

I couldn't believe what I was reading, Car Crafters saying LS1's are too expensive? Too complex? You have to be kidding me!

Most engine buildup's I read about cost atleast $4000, and that dosen't include the price of the car and the costs associated with making it even road worthy enough to drive to your local drive through, much less to work everyday.

Last year after already being involved with LS1's for a few years, I found a very mint 1998 Camaro Z28 with 32k miles for $7500, and it already had full exhaust on it plus included random parts.

I see all types of 98/99 LS1 f-body cars for 7k and less on eBay now.

The LS1 engines can be had for $1000 to $2000 depending on the seller, miles, and parts it comes with. With the new Edelbrock Victor Jr carb kit, which will be way less than $1000, will allow all you carbureator fanatics to slap a proven 400hp motor in stock form into your car for less than $3000.

Stab in a huge cam and bolt on a nice valvetrain, tune it and you have a bad ass, all aluminum and composite, reliable, race ready LS1.

Heck, junkyards have ton of 5.3 and 6.0 iron block LSx based motors really cheap!

CAR CRAFT: DO NOT STOP THE ARTICLES ON THE GENIII/IV MOTORS! PLEASE DO A ARTICLE ON THE NEW EDELBROCK VICTOR JR. KIT WITH A JUNKYARD MOTOR AND A LARGE CAM LIKE THE THUNDER RACING T-REX! FOR UNDER 4K YOU COULD EASILY PUT A 500HP MOTOR IN ANY GM CAR (AND MANY MORE) ALMOST!

Aren't you late for work at GMPP, "Mr. Torque?"

Oh, that's what I want. People looking at my car saying, "what a cheap piece under the hood."

But you are right about one thing, LS1 F-Bodies are becoming dirt cheap.  Must be all that the market will bear, right? And considering that the junkyards "have [a] ton" of LS iron after less than a decade on sale, what does that say for GM reliability and quality . . . .

There are plenty of (yawn) LS articles in Super Chevy, GM High Tech [sic] Performance,  Street Rodder . . . . Why should CC be just another Chevy rag? 

Most GEN III SBC engines are in junkyards because the car they were once in was totaled.

I've heard of people getting dealer takeouts for dirt cheap from friends who work at dealerships, and then fixing them up dirt cheap.

I've never looked under someones hood and saw a LSx motor and said that is junk. It always is impressive.

The motors are extremely strong and will last pratically forever as long as you keep them well oiled! There is a ton of people making 500-700rwhp on the stock bottom end on power adders.

If I owned a older GM car right now, I'd find a 6.0L truck or LS1 longblock, slap on the victor jr conversion and a plate kit and for under $2500 I have 600hp minimum. Add a cam, heads... sky is the limit.

Maybe they like to work on chevy motors because they are ummm... how do you say.. reliable? is that a common term used by ford owners?

When I see the cheesy plastic coil covers of a "Corvette" LS under the hood of a street rod or muscle car, I just think "what a boring ride.  Another me-too small block (yawn)." 

BTW, why does everyone who swaps the LS seem to have "Corvette" coil covers?

have a #### cookie. if i put plastic valve covers on a 800 h.p. big block that said corvette, would it make it boring. the LS1 is not a boring small block. they make 450 h.p. easy now and days. 500 might not b that far from being easily had.

You're missing the point.

Compared to the new Hemi and the DOHC Cammer, the cheezy plastic coil-covered LS engine is LesS than impressive in a hot rod application.  I think even 2V and 3V Cammers could look more interesting when detailed than a (yawn) LS. I will admit that FoMoCo doesn't do much to make the SOHC Cammers lookers from the factory.  However, the LS--even when detailed-- has all the aesthetic appeal of a Cadillac 4100. 

Certainly looks have ZERO to do with power (a full-dress Flathead looks much better than the average billet-covered SBC but will get smoked).  So if you never open the hood, by all means go with the LS. However, I guarantee that detailed to the same level, HEMIS and DOHC CAMMERS will ALWAYS garner more attention at shows than a Gen III/Gen IV simply because of how HOT they look (Just like an Ardun Flathead conversion draws much more interest than a Chevy Targetmaster crate mill).

 3,000 is way to much to spend on any drive train especially if it only makes 400 horses the motor mounts don't line up, besides if people hold off a while longer salvage yard owners will come down on prices  then you can put one together for a grand in a few years it's to bad there is no provision for a distibuter.  If all you want is 400 horses spend 1,000 to 3,000 on a 1g dsm switch you fuel rails bov waste gate and improve the intercooler you can get 450 hp with a little porting here and there with a little 4 banger that is almost as ugly as one of the later  "press on finger nail" bodied camaro/firebird's. 

In a few years the ls platform may be resonably priced but in all honesty as quick as gm keeps switching platforms buy then there will be another one look at how quickly the lt platform dissapeared.  If you want v8 power and who can blame you it is much more cost effective to keep your eyes pealed for good deals do the machine work yourselfe, at least the porting and polishing deburing and clearancing, let the pros do the boring decking honing and milling unless you have a lot to spend on tools. and think outside the box.  I just passed up a running 402 for 100 dollars and they come along often sink in 500 for a rebuild kit do your own head work get a cam and youve got your little 400 hp for a grand save that other two grand for a big blower or twin turbo set up and start nocking on the door to the 800hp mark save a little new heads big shot of juice cd ignition with boost retard start nocking on the 1,000 hp door.  SO is an LS a cost efective motor in comparison no way.  Will it be in a few years of course.  It's not bad for a magazine to fill us in now so we know the parts to keep an eye pealed for but they shouldn't dedicate all of there resorces towards something that is out of reach for many.  Especially when parts for this engine series are quite pricy at the time....... 

well, if it looks boring, then maybe it has the sleeper effect.. which it dont. alot of people see those covers and repect them.  

It usually suggests to me someone who: (a) couldn't figure out how to make even modest power from the factory mill, (b) wasn't creative enough to find a visually-interesting engine or do anything any differently from scores of "me-too" rodders, (c) is a "safe" cookie-cutter car builder who sells to those even less knowledgable, creative and industrious, (d) has no real Car Crafting skills beyond using a credit card to buy a "crate motor,"  and (d) is too lazy to do much of anything "outside the box."

Factory LS1 make as much, or more power than a lot of lightly modified small blocks. I dont see as many LS1 under the hoods of muscle cars as I do typical small and big blocks. you have to be creative to put the motor in. Before this was more main stream, people had to make their own motor mounts, and their own customizing to make it fit right. It was outside the box a year or two ago. Just because it doesn't have a turbo, doesn't mean its not interesting. I think the problem is that people put the engines in and make it look like such a factory job, you dont think anything of it, and thats what it should do. Most LS1 converted muscle cars are cruisers, so that need that factory appeal.  

I've got to admit that some of my lack of enthusiasm for the LS is from seeing them overused in street rods (outside of the subject matter of CC).  At some shows, "Corvette" LesS V8s seem almost NSRA standard-issue.

I strongly disagree that  "cruisers" need "factory job" looks. In fact,  my earlier comments support the opposite.  

Turbos are not the only way, but they are the best non-refillable power for the dollar.

I have to totally agree.  I'm game for more LS1 articles.

I used to have a 70 SS 350.  It ran 12's in street trim, but also got 10-12 mpg.  Now, I have a daily driven 00 SS and it runs 12's but gets 20 mpg city and averages 28 mpg highway with a best of 30 mpg.  Do the math.  With the fuel prices like they are, it will add up to the cost of an LS1 or even a car payment quickly.  There has also been far less maintenance.

If you have a beater you drive daily, add up the cost of insurance on 2 cars (beater and your fast car) plus the nuissance of driving a turd daily (especially when someone pulls up next to you in a nice car) and see if the LS1 becomes more feasable to you.

Right now, the LS1 market is full of very good used parts at good prices.  You just have to know where to look.  I've seen some 6L short blocks sell for under $1000.  Thats the same price range I've seen 400 SBC short blocks run. 

I loved my 70, but I'm in no way sad I got rid of it either.  The 00 more than makes up for it...even if it is RED.

I've also noticed a difference.  When guys who run gen 1 engines talk about 450 hp, its flywheel.  When LS guys talk 450 hp its rear wheel.  Ya, build your 450 hp gen 1 and compare it to a 450hp gen 3 and see which one is more reliable and capable of being driven daily.

The Gen III/Gen IV isn't a miracle motor.  The last of the Geo-Camaro-Storm/FireTurds get better mileage than an ancient second gen F-body primarily because:

1. less weight for a given equipment level

2. much better aerodynamics

3. electonic fuel injection/more efficient emission control system

4. mild cam timing (short intake duration, wide lobe centers, little overlap)

5. extremely high overdrive ratios combind with efficient wide-ratio transmissions

6. high compression allowed by EFI, aluminum heads, high swirl and good quench

7. low rolling resistance tires

Only #6 is remotely unique to the GenIII/Gen IV engines.  Plop a carbureted, lumpy-idling LesS V8 in a heavy, brick-like muscle car with no overdrive and a "stall" converter and your mileage will be more like an SUV than the LATE Camaro (RIP).

I've got no problem if they give EQUAL TIME to the latest Ford and MoPar engines. 

I think folks may be more than slighly mis-informed about the GenIII/GenIV SBC.

When I read Car Craft this month and saw some of the comments about the GenIII  I had to laugh.  Its too expensive...  You have to pay folks to tune it, etc...

I've always been into GM stuff. I admit before I got an LS1 powered vehicle I had many of the same pre-concieved notions I see folks having.  I thought they'd be difficult to work on.  I'd heard stories about reliabilty issues, etc...  None of the "rumors"  I've heard about the motor have ever turned out to be true.

Lets look at what a GenIII motor is and isn't...

First off, the motor is light.  From the factory it has a good set of heads.  If you happen to own a Z06, an even better set of heads.   

Second off, its a pretty sturdy bottom end  Mike from Icon Autosports in Houston (a former MTI mechanic who started his own shop) has gone 9.69@135.01 in a stock bottom end car.

I own a Z06 in fact I hold the U.S. record for the fastest pass in a 100% stock Z06.  11.783@116.90

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51353

I currently drive one of the fastest Head and Cam (a hydraulic cam too) Z06's in the country.  10.67@126.17 

http://users3.ev1.net/~black_ops/video/10.67.wmv

This car makes 503 Rear Wheel HP not flywheel HP.  FWHP is around 550+.  The car gets 22 mpg and you can cruise around with the A/C on.

Tuning an LS is pretty easy.  With software like HP Tuners www.hptuners.com , ls1edit, or AutoTAP  you can log your data and tune the car.  If you have ANY savy whatsoever its easier to tune a car than it is to set the idle and jetting on your carb...

Take a junkyard Ls motor and put a cam in it.  What do you have.  You have a motor that makes the same HP level as an Gen I  SBC which costs about $12,000 to duplicate.

Look, I love 23 degree stuff.  I own a numbers matching 67 SS 350 Camaro, a 1972 Nova which is my drag car, and I own an 1987 Buick GN with LOTs of mods. I'm not blind to one generation of motor .  I see them for what they are and aren't.  All I'm trying to say is that folks seem to have a lot of mis-conceptions about this motor.

If you want some technical information on the LS series motor I'd recommend you consider visiting www.ls1tech.com  If you drop by, send me a PM, I'm a moderator on there.

Lets look at what the LS Series motor is. 

It is the 3rd in a very successful line of GM power plants.

Its light

It makes really good power.

It has more HP potential than many folks seem to think.

The aftermarket support grows every day with part like aftermarket heads now appearing, and its is reported we'll soon have aftermarket blocks, etc...

It isn't:

Hard to work on

Hard to tune