I hope your buddy never has to find breaks, I had a 61 rambler, well I split the 50 dollar investment with my sister it ruled for three weeks till the breaks gave out and we couldnt find them any where, I was still young and didn't think about converting to different breaks or manufacturer, but an 11" drum is hard to find that fits.  I love the current slew of project cars, I'm loking forward to the new motorvation for the nova.  

What happens to the parts that get pulled for these like the front suspension for Mcgeans Camaro? Oh so many 305's etc....  I was just currious as we see so many parts go on cars, just currious as my spare parts are getting me in trouble with my wife, my parents and one of my cusins.  I mean do people at swap meats give a rat's you know about a stack of 60's and 70's intakes.  I sold off a like ten turbo 350's for 25 bucks a piece but how many people really want to put in a three on the tree when they just watched the latest 5 speed or six speed swap on tv?  Ive become the broke J Lenno where he has a duec or rocket or even citroen Ive just got a stack of parts, and don't have the ones I need especially what do you do with the 305's once you snag the heads.  Or attempt to blow them up with Nitrous,  By the way If you want to do that again and get a good rod flying shot, how bout jacking the timing to show people it's not always bolt and go fast.  Show us what you do with the project leftovers.  

I love the Ramber.... I've got a 64 two door Classic I'm building up with a 302-T5, toyota rear end, nascar/chevtruck rear suspention with a watts link, all in a sleeper package. Should be able to scare all the Corvette guys out here.  

Just getting onto your website so my apologies if you recently addressed this.  I'm an avid subscriber to Car Craft in print.  Been watching closely for the AMC 360 build ... now overdue?  I'm meeting with my engine builder to lay out the specs for a 360 he's building for my1982 AMC Spirit.  Need to meet with him on 9/28/05.   Can you provide any info yet on what you are putting into your 360 or at least general plans and what type of HP are you targeting for?

Also for what its worth, don't dismiss the AMC 304.  Same sturdy internals (except no forged crank) as the 390/401.  Weak point ifor performance is the small valves.  But I really wanted to recreate a 1979 Spirit I bought new which had a 304 so I built a 304.  Key seems to have been a heavy port/polish on the heads.  Running a mild cam, Edelbrock Perfomer intake and Edelbrock 600cfm carb.  Running a 4.10 AMC Model 20 rear and beefed up A998 trans.  Running consistent high 13s in my '82 Spirit so estimating about 270HP.  Will be representing 75&80 Dragway in Street at the Sept 29 - Oct 1 NHRA Region 1 Summit Series Bracket Finals at US13 Dragway in Delmar, DE.  You guys should cover it ... 90 grassroots Street cars mostly running 12-14s ... not to mention the faster stuff.  Come out to the East Coast ... you'll love it.

Lastly, love the mag in general ... don't change a thing and god forbid, no freak'n front wheel drive crap, pleeez.

Steve

amcmccully@aol.com

I would use the jeep 4.0 6 cyl. Here in maine rusted cherokees are like cockroaches you can't go anywhere without seeing a dozen. Also have you seen the price of gas lately (take it out it hurts) The 4 litre would get better milage than the stock six .Coupled with the T-5 would rip the skins off the car and leave lots of room for improvement ,throttle body spacer ,header , stroker ? the sky's the limit  

6-inch Chevy Rods
Stock Crank
Edelbrock heads/Performer RPM air-gap intake
230 @ 0.050 cam
370 cubes.
The story is done and you will see it in January (around November on the newsstand). I cant give the power away until the mag comes out.
Glad  

As for the '67 Rambler, hurry up!

I have a '72 Gremlin that was a 304, now a 360.

It is a great thing to see Car Craft doing features on AMC. Keep the info and pictures coming. I know there are alot of us AMC guys out there. It is great you are showing AMC LIVES!!!!!

Scott

Loved the article!  I would liked to have seen you run the large cam with Rhoads lifters.  Also would like to see 401 crank used in the 360 for a stroker or maybe something from Indy?  I did notice you said you used Edelbrock heads but some of the pics showed "Indy" imprinted on the heads?  What's up with that? 

At the moment I am in the dormant(saving money) stage until I can afford Moser axles and an Auburn Pro Posi unit for the next project  in my Javelin build up.  I just finished putting a 700r4 behind the 290 and figure to get the rear end setup before tackling engine replacement.  Hope you plan to do a big story on the rear suspension(differential, springs, traction aids, larger wheels and tires) as that has less info about it than any other part of the AMC knowledge bank.

You'all keep up the great work!  Thanks for helping us AMC folk!

The article was informative, if you want to build a high $$$ AMC engine. Otherwise it was a bit disappointing. You REALLY need a book on AMC engines! The best one out there is done by a small shop, and is called "B.J. Builds an AMC". Okay, title is a little hokey, but contents is not! See the website (http://www.hobbyobsession.com/bjsbook.html). No relation, I just have a copy, along with AMCs own performance book (Performance American Style, copyright 1972).

Welding up rods is a bit beyond the average "car crafter" if you ask me. Lots of machine shop time in the build! The stock AMC crank is good for 7,500 rpm according to Performance American Style -- 390 and 401 forged steel cranks for over 7,500. AMC recommends the forged cranks for anything over 550 hp, indicating the cast nodular iron is good for up to that amount. Stock rods are only recommended up to 6,000 rpm (used as is). Forged 390/401 rods are listed as 8,000 rpm capable after shot peening, Magnafluxed (to check for flaws), and polished. The stock cast 360 rods should be capable of more than 6K with the same treatment. Because of age it might be a good idea to not stress the parts quite that much, but pushing it to 6,000-6,500 should be adequate for a nice street performer.

One more thing that wasn't clear -- AMC engine "oiling problems". Problems only occur at sustained high rpm. The oil pump then proceeds to pump all the oil to the top of the engine. This is what starves the rear rod bearings. The Milodon pickup does increase volume going to the pump, but that has NEVER been a real problem with these engines. You're talking about an all-out race engine to get into the rpm range where that is really needed!

Many drag racers never knew there was a "problem" -- 1/4 mile sprints don't have it. The T/A racers discovered the "problem" because they couldn't drain engine oil fast enough at the high rpm they were running. One solution is to run an extra line in the valley to route oil around the lifters and provide more for the rear rod bearings. Not necessary for a 400 hp street engine, but usually done for insurance. Getting more oil up from the pan has never been as problematic as the article insinuates.

You had a nice race engine professionally built, there's no doubt about it! Hopefully you'll do another that the average guy can duplicate without all the exotic machine work. An AMc 360 built with the stock crank and rods would easily put out what your street engine did without the offset grinding and required rod welding.

I hate to "complain" because the AMC coverage is nice, but it wouldn't hurt to do a little home work. It's obvious you're not taking the time to get to know AMc engines. In a way I don't blame you -- Chevy and Ford sells most issues.

I could not have dreamed of summing it up better than you just did! Very dissapointing to say the least, especially after the long delay in the much anticipated 360 build for myself and I'am sure many others. As for putting chevy rods in an AMC engine, ABSOLUTE JOKE!!! as SCAT H-beam rods are readily available on ebay for this very application. Indeed a little more research would have gone a long way.  

Hi thanks for the near build up article on the 'project scc/rambler' in Car Craft. Besides the book Frank mentions above about 'BJ builds a AMC'
 http://www.hobbyobsession.com/bjsbook.html

Note I sell copies of Performance American Style and also AMC Power Book, both neat "how to" long since out of print books for the AMC and Jeep hobbyist:
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/main/amc_literature.htm

Also as noted before should any of Car Craft readers wish to buy something AMC related now and build it up mild to wild, there are hundreds of free leads listed in my website's "amc classifieds"
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/bodyMessageBoard.htm
(scroll down to read all ads, and feel free to post your own too)

and also 100 AMCs and Ramblers for sale are added each mont in the Shut Up & Drive Lists (amcs for sale)
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/Shut_Up_Files/amc for sale shut up drive lists.htm  (or simply click on "amcs for sale" and scroll down to newest list).

Thanks Doug Glad and the staff at Car Craft for recognizing America's Giant Killer. Hrruumph, that almost takes on a new meaning with the recent GM massive plant closings sadly. Another story, another day. Go AMC! Eddie Stakes' Planet Houston AMX
www.planethoustonamx.com

lunde, don't get me wrong -- if a part from another engine fits and is an easier find, more cost effective, or just plain works better, by all means use it! you can build a SBC without actually using a single Chevy part nowadays. Is it a Chevy? Well, it's an engine based on the Chevy design anyway. Same thing if you buy the Indy "AMC" aluminum block. It't no longer a true AMC engine, but a collection of mostly aftermarket parts with an AMC crank (unless you have a billet crank made), and maybe a few other aftermarket parts.

I don't have a problem with using the Chevy rods in an AMC in general, another 10 inches is a nice ting to have! Call your local machine shop and ask them about welding the rods though. Most simply won't do it. Only a hard core racing shop would consider it. THAT is the problem I have with using Chevy rods. Machine work needs to be done that the average builder can't even get done, not readily anyway.  the best bet for you and I are to buy SCAT rods made for an AMC, then build to run no more than 6,000-6,500 rpm. A rev limiter would be a nice "safety valve" to keep it all together and not have to be concerned with over revving.

I'm not totally dissing the article. The editor did mention that this wasn't a mild street engine, not in three of the four build scenarios anyway.  Obviously they want to make something more than a streetable racer out of the Rambler. I have no heartburn with that. Things are done to the engine with noe more explanation than that's what Payton's wanted to do. Payton is a great builder -- I'm not faulting the shop at all! I don't have the article in front of me, but don't remember the valley oil line being added, just a lot of emphasis on getting oil to the pump. The Moroso setup IS a bit better, but the necessity of it is questionable when the stock pump will put more oil in theheads than can drain back without it. was anyting done to improve drain back? I don't recall it in the article. Try to duplicate that build and you will run into problems because to many details are left out. That's often the case with a LOT of technical magazine articles though, not just AMC articles.

It wasn't a bad article, and I do appreciate AMC coverage, but it missed more people than it hit.

I have to say that I enjoyed reading about the AMC Nationals, and in Cordova! I've never got the opportunity to go, but have been to "just a few" AMC events. Drag racing isn't a big thing for me, but I do go occasionally. I was at the Cecil County (MD) meet last spring, and will likely go to the next one since it's only a couple hours away from me now. In 2007 I'm moving again, so it won't be so convenient! Cordova Illinois is a 17-18 hour drive from Dover.

Frank, looks like I'am now the bad boy after agreeing essentially with all that you wrote. I did not interpret your comments as positive nor do I believe most of them were. I'am not trying to trash CC either only commenting on my dissaproval of their build. As a subscriber and an AMC enthusiast, I believe my voice should be heard and I'am not in favour of adding Chevy rods to an AMC unless there is no other option. In this case plenty of options where available given the abundance of the AMC 360 engine found in Jeeps. I'am currently stroking a 68 343cid with a 390 crank, early 390 rods which I found on e-bay, and AMC 360 forged pistons. I'am by no means a purist in the restoration of my 68 AMX, as can be seen in my build, but I would like to do so in a manner that is easy and affordable and doesn't require drastic measures. This is why I whole heartedly agreed with your comments and suggested SCAT rods. I hope I'am not upsetting you with my comments I just feel that I'am now the scapegoat for a buildup that I'am sure many AMC enthusiasts are not interested in. Your comments to CC about taking time to learn about AMC engines, remains clear in my mind, and I agree that CC did not take the time to do so or listen to the many AMC builders out there. My biggest dissapointment however was the approx. 6-7 month delay in the "promised" build-up. I realize I have no understanding of the operations of CC and their reasons for the delay, it just became somewhat anticlimactic after the long delay and the dissapointing  build-up. I commend CC for their continued interest in AMC products but would have like to see them request more feedback from the AMC guys and girls out there before having proceeded with such and important topic to myself, and maybe many others. Cheers  

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you look bad, mainly meant to clarify that I'm not wholely bashing the article. I don't think you are either -- there's some good in it. You and I are essentially on the same page ad far as all your other comments. I'm just trying to be careful and not tick the "we should be happy someone's printing anything about AMC" crowd off while maintaining that the article was mediocre and really didn't show anyone a thing.

I've been discussing the welded rods with some other AMCers who DO build full fledged drag engines. One works at a shop with a dyno, and they just dyno'd a 290 built with offset ground crank and Chevy rods. No welding involved. There's about 0.100" clearance on the crank, but no problems. Other AMC racers have been doing the same. A little more oil gets splashed around, that's it. Even Car Craft built a BB Chrysler a while back (not sure of issue) that had something like 0.070" clearance, which they stated was no problem.

My only concern with the big clearance is the piston pin. With a pressed in pin (pressed in the rod), there may be enough movement to have the pin scrape the bore. Depends on the length of pin and clearance in the piston. I doubt it's possible for it to move that much, just something to check. No oil pressure issues (with good bearings) either. I don't know if I'd run a daily driver with that much clearance, but the racers who tear an engine down every season (or the "hobby racers" who tear down every second or third season) shouldn't have a problem.

I wonder if the CC guys really follow the posts on these boards. I know they can't answer every one, but sometimes you have to wonder if they're listening. I would be happy to write them a detailed article on AMC V-8s, just don't know that they'd print it. I'm more of a historian than a racer, but have all the info at hand. I've been writing a little AMC publication for nine years now -- http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html.