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Posted: 04/28/06 08:28 AM
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Okay. this may not be typical, but I am 16 years old. My first car is a 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 3.1L V6, 4 Speed Automatic. I love my car, but like all normal teenagers, I want more speed!! I want easy tips that work. If you have made more power out of your own 3.1L perhaps, or you know of an easy way to get more power. There are about 155,000 miles on my car. Ultimately, I think it would be awesome to do a rear-drive conversion and put in a small-block Chevy, maybe a 350, but it would be a waste to do it in such an old car. Anyways, any tips to go faster, PLEASE HELP!! (Remember, I am 16, and kind of strapped for cash). NOS, superchargers, and engine swaps are kind of out of the question. I have looked at the e-ram electric supercharger and i am kind of interested. PLEASE HELP!!
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Posted: 04/28/06 08:27 PM
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Sell your car and buy a gtp. They have some performance potential, a 3.1 is just going to be a money pit. Even 3.8's are expensive to modify. Mitch "I'm a Mean Machine, Drinking Gasoline and Honey you can make my motor run"-Guns and Roses
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Bowser59
Enthusiast
| Posts: 296
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 04/28/06 09:13 PM
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DUDE - I hate to be a pessemist, but what you are working with really doesn't lend itself to easy modification or easy add on power. If your engine didn't have 155 grand on it I would reccommend a 50 shot of Nitrous, but I think that would give you power for about half a day of fun before scattering the engine. My advice would be to enjoy your car for now especially if you like it and it's giving you reliable service. Save up for something more buildable, or get a vision of what you eventually want, and start working to that goal.
You can start even by slowly rebuilding an engine. By the time you get it done maybe you can find something cool to put it into. In the meantime you got a good driver, so you can afford to work slow, plan, and find the stuff you want. That's how I'm building the car that I plan to race this summer, and I have had alot of fun with it.
As for the blower idea, be careful. The factory blower on the V-6 in my wife's Impalla doesn't really push that much boost - 15 psi max I think, and that engine is designed for force induction. It's also less than 2 years old. If you take an old engine like yours, and push that much boost into the combustion chambers, you may end up with rods in your oil pan. Any force induction is going to hammer the crap out of the bottom end of an engine. Most force inducted engines have been reinforced in some fashion in order to take the stresses caused by forced air being injected into the cylinders. With 155,000 on the engine, it's probably not a good idea.
That my take on it. Bowser
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TommyN
User
| Posts: 170
| Joined: 03/05
Posted: 04/29/06 05:44 PM
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Sell it and buy something easier to mod.
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Hill1513
New User
| Posts: 15
| Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/29/06 07:07 PM
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Being young myself (19) and being around a lot of guys like yourself (I work at Advance Auto Parts), I know of a few things you can try to go a little faster and make your car "seem" faster. Non of these things should be too expensive either.
1) KnN Filter or Filter Kit (if available) - Depends on the model, but most kits go for under $250, install easy, and give some power. A direct replacement filter is cheaper, but gives less performance.
2) Catback Exhaust - If a company makes it for your car, get it. Should be around $300 or less. If nobody makes it, find a muffler shop that will bend a new, larger catback for you.
3) Lowing Springs - OK, nobody flame here. Lowing springs will effectively lower your center of gravity giving you better traction, not to mention the mental horsepower it adds.
4) Better tires - Tires that perform better make the car that much faster. Check out TireRack.com for some good deals.
There are probably dozens of more things you can do that are reliable and proven to add power (speed). I'm sure others will chime in.
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Bowser59
Enthusiast
| Posts: 296
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 04/29/06 11:08 PM
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I agree with you to an extent, but with some reservations.
First, any increase in how the engine can breath on it's own is an improvement. Taking the restriction off of the front end of the engine will help a little, but only to the extent that the engine has extra volumetric capacity to draw in more air. Most engines do have extra capacity, but there is no constant. Every engine is different so the results are going to vary. Of your suggestions, this is probably the best.
Catback exhaust isn't going to do much because the bulk of the restriction is still going to be there. If you are blowing air through a 1/4 inch pipe into a 3/4 inch pipe, where is the restriction? The capacity to blow air (or exhaust in this case) is only going to be as much as whats feeding it (in the example a 1/4 inch pipe). In order for this to work he needs a high flow cat with the cat back exhaust and larger pipes running from the engine. That way you are expanding the breathing potential of the entire exhaust system not just the back portion of it.
In this scenerio, the heads are going to be the weak point in all this because they are only going to be able to flow what they were designed to flow. But by reducing back pressure, you will inevetably increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine. This will mean a modest gain in HP, but it isn't going to give it an immediate +50 hp boost or 50 ft lbs of torque or anything like that. It will be better and that's all I can say about it.
Tires are not going to give the car more power. That's like saying that putting aluminum wheels on the car makes it go faster. It may look faster, but that's it. Will it handle better? Sure, and if he is doing some rally racing or something like that, then a good set of boots is a good idea, but he is looking for power. Tires in and of themselves will not get him there. Tires get critical when you HAVE power, and are trying to get it onto the pavement.
Will the suggestions hurt anything? No, and it would probably make the car more marketable when he goes to sell it. If he tempers your suggestions with what I have added in regards to the exhaust, he may get some of what he's looking for. But he is still going to be trapped within the confines of what that engine was designed to deliver.
Bowser.
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CSIROC
Enthusiast
| Posts: 744
| Joined: 11/05
Posted: 04/30/06 07:54 AM
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I've got to agree with Bowser here, it may make a little more HP, but you're talking about almost a grand in parts for probably just a more crisp pedal and a lower car...I have an 88 IROC with a 305 TPI and I added a 3" Borla adjustable cat back, a high flow converter, and a set of Edelbrock headers, and I felt NO change...maybe there was some, but with a cam as mild as that has (less than 200 degrees duration at .050!!), and the restrictive intake and heads...it didn't really do anything, and there is over a grand in the exhaust system...it sounds good, but its not any faster...and thats a V8 to start! For my car, I should have gone out and purchased a 350 first...then done the mods. For him, he should probably just save his money and get a car thats easier to modify. I would have said nitrous too, but with that many miles, and that being his daily transportation, I don't think its worth the risk. He'll have a car that gets decent mileage...if he saves his penny's he can come up with something cool. Just my opinion
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket 85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket 02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L
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Hill1513
New User
| Posts: 15
| Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/30/06 01:31 PM
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I agree with both you and Bowser...but it's not easy for everyone to find a cheap replacement and build it. Forget about money...kids (including me) have parents and (a lot of the time) lack of space.
Bowser: I disagree about aluminum wheels making a car faster. Less rotating mass means more speed. Plus, they look better. ![]()
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 917
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 04/30/06 02:47 PM
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Great advice...
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CSIROC
Enthusiast
| Posts: 744
| Joined: 11/05
Posted: 04/30/06 05:08 PM
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I am just curious...how old do you think I am? I own three cars, two that don't run and are sitting in my parents driveway...one that I've just gotten on the road after five years of building, but am doing some work to finish it up, so its sitting in half of my parents 2 car garage. I'll agree with you, storage is a problem, but he'd be better off saving his money and buying something that already runs that has performance potential. Otherwise its money down the drain...take that grand you would have spent, trade or sell the car you own, and you can get a decent third gen, or fox mustang. its just a suggestion...its his car, he can do what he wants to it...but it'll never really be that fast... To answer the trivia question above, I'll be 21 in 26 days...I've owned all three of my cars since I was a juinor in high school. As soon as I get out of college, I'll be able to get all of them on the road in good shape...but until then...they sit.
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket 85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket 02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L
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Hill1513
New User
| Posts: 15
| Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/30/06 05:25 PM
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I agree with you guys that the potential for a truly "fast" car isn't in a Grand Am. Problem here is...he's already got the car. Some parents aren't as supportive as others. My parents are split. My dad would certainly hold cars for me (or put up with me wrenching on the one I have). As for my mother, she doesn't even want to see me thinking about it.
If he sells his Grand Am for a 5.0 or Thirdgen, he may be stuck with the problems that those year cars come with. This isn't always true, many run great. But, if the car does have problems that 20-year-old cars tend to have, he'll be out of transportation if he did, in fact, sell the car he has now. Maybe his parents will loan him a car, maybe a friend. But there is also a chance that he doesn't have these luxuries.
My first car was a '87 GP. I did a whole bunch of stupid and not so stupid crap to that car. Many times though, this required me finding alternate forms of transport, which sucked to say the least. Next was a '94 Tbird (4.6) which is still in the family. Currently I have a '89 SC. Fortunately, I have grown up around cars and can do most of the wrenching myself in an afternoon. If this is the case with the Grand Am owner, he may be better off seeking '80s "muscle." If not, bolt-ons for his current car may be the way he wants to go.
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Bowser59
Enthusiast
| Posts: 296
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 05/02/06 07:45 PM
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OK - aluminum is going to be lighter if you are comparing wheel to like sized wheel. If something wider or taller is put on, then the weight might break even. To a car doing a 1/4 mile, the difference in speed and time might well be an issue. If you are trying to improve your elapsed time and speed with a car made for the track - then yes, I agree with you. Aluminum is best.
However, this kid is looking for more power, and I may have used the term interchangably with speed. My bad. I stand behind the statement that aluminum wheels are not going to improve the power of the car. Using your example, top speed might be improved if this guy gets the car on a flat road and runs it full throttle. OK, the car is going to be able to go a few more MPH, but the torque, HP, and abilities of the engine remain the same. His launch off the line is still going to be limited by the factors of engine torque, HP, and whether or not he has a peg leg front wheel drive car.
As for looks - no arguement there. Almost all the cars that I have put aluminum wheels on really do look great. But I would caution anyone trying to improve the overall performance of a car to weigh all the options and pick what will give the best bang for the buck. In this kids case, $1000 worth of wheels and tires probably isn't his best choice for a power enhancement.
Lets face it, he is going to have to modify or replace the engine with something more versitile, or with less mileage anyhow so that he can hit it with a 50 shot. THAT WILL do the trick if nothing else will.
Bowser
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Hill1513
New User
| Posts: 15
| Joined: 04/06
Posted: 05/02/06 08:28 PM
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Agreed.
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rebldryvr
Enthusiast
| Posts: 534
| Joined: 05/05
Posted: 05/04/06 09:28 PM
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You could sell your car and buy something with a V8 like most of the posters said. Yes, it's an easy way out especially if your not the one spending the money. I guess you wanted some advice from someone on how to get more power from your current car. So here goes. 1) Better free flowing exhaust, headers, cat, mufflers. A cat-back system would benefit the most to start. 2) A free flowing air intake and filter like K&N. 3) A new chip for the ECM or computer. Or reprogamming your current ECM. 4) Some sort of power adder like nitrous or supercharger or turbo. Nitrous is cheap to buy, but extra power only comes in when you hit the button and you are constantly refilling the bottle. Turbo or superchargers are expensive but the power is always there and it's easier on engine internals. I hope this helps. Cool car. So, when ya gonna paint it?
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Bowser59
Enthusiast
| Posts: 296
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 05/05/06 09:02 PM
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4) Some sort of power adder like nitrous or supercharger or turbo. Nitrous is cheap to buy, but extra power only comes in when you hit the button and you are constantly refilling the bottle. Turbo or superchargers are expensive but the power is always there and it's easier on engine internals.
Ok, lets not lose site of the fact that this kids engine has 155,000 miles on it. In my rank, ammeturish, and inexperienced opinion, force induction of anykind is not easy on engine internals. If you are going to turbocharge or supercharge, you have to plan the engine around that. The weak point of any street engine is going to be the crank, rod journals, and main bearings when planning foce induction. By forcing air into the combustion chamber under higher pressure, there will be much more shear force and thrust force put on the main caps and rods. The main caps will be the ones that would most likely start to shift under extreme pressure conditions, so that is where you need to overbuild. With a worn engine, the main caps are probably weakened by just the total number of miles on the engine alone. If one was to put force induction on an engine with 155,000 miles of wear, the weak points are going to surface real fast, and it isn't going to be pretty. If you are really interested, ask me how I know.
Other factors such as compression ratio also play into engine planning. You don't put a roots blower on a street engine with 9.5:1 compression, run pump gas through it, and expect it to hold together. Believe it or not, 8.5:1 seems to be the magic number for street engines when planning a turbo or roots blower. Don't believe me? Read up on what they do when they take a brand new Corvette, and give it the twin turbo Lingenfelter treatment. Those engines do not retain their stock compression ratios, and they are otherwise modified to take the stresses and rigors of twin induction.
Now - I don't totally disagree with you. If this kid were doing a fresh build, was in the position to make all the proper bottom end mods and compression ratio adjustments, then by all means. Turbos are great - I like roots blowers better, but that's my preference. The facts in this case remain the same. His engine, while running good, isn't going to hold up under any form of power enhancement - nitrous or otherwise.
If he trys, the engine is going to blow out of the front of the car, and he is going to be out of transportation. I believe he says in his original thead that's not something he wants to happen.
Bowser
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need good advice,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,tierods
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