well,my freind isnt a backyard joe,he's a machinist who has building engines for over 25 yrs.his reputation up here is second to none.he told me that comp cams recommended using EOS with their own break in lube they produce.as well, he used shell diesel rotella oil,and broke in the cam only using the outer springs.they warrantied the cam,lifters,and even the valve springs.they sent up new stuff,no charge,and he redid his motor,installed the new stuff,repeated the break in procedure,and so far so good.no problems at all as of last august to october.he took the car to the track in september and went 12 flat with it at 110,and drove it home(2 hr drive)  

Called CompCams today $100 more for nitrided flat tappet cams,tell you what I'm interested.Retro rollers and shorter pushrods still cost more.   WIEDER  

Hello, I just wanted to give everybody an update on my engine condition. Yesterday, I went out to do work on my car since it was the first really warm day here at 80 degrees. I bought and installed new Taylor plug wires because mine were in bad shape and needed it anyway. And just to make sure it was not an ignition induction problem between plug wires I seperated them as much as I could. I even took the plug wires out of the loom so I could get as much distance as possible. I only had one that was crossing when coming right out of the distributor, but it was crossing at 90 degrees so that is ok. So then I fired her up and I didn't get any backfires through the carb like I usually do when It first fires. It didn't pop through the exhaust as bad for the first 20 seconds or so after it starts either. And after that it did seem to run better than normal. It still was running rough and you could still feel and see the shaking of the car caused by the rough running motor though. So that rules out ignition induction I believe. Just to let everybody know, I never did time the car correctly. I say correctly because I used my top of the line timing light to time my car and I didn't know that good timing lights don't work well on MSD ignitions. That is what originally led me to believe I had a bad timing chain. I saw that marker jumping all over the place and thought I needed a chain. I never did buy a cheapo light to use with MSD ignitions. I don't think that is the problem, but you never know I guess and I just thought it was worth mentioning. I also took off one of the valve covers and checked out the rocker arms. they are tight and no noise from them when the car was running. So that leads me to a good question. The whole time I have had this problem I never altered the adjustment on any of the rockers, so you would think that if I had cam lobes going south that would give me too much clearance in my valvetrain and I would hear it. What do you think about that???? I have polylocks by the way. Maybe I am just trying to do my best to convince myself that it is not the cam because I don't want to change it. I do thinks like that sometimes. Have a nice day everybody and thanks again. All good info coming from everybody, especially about the ZDDP.  

My last flat lobe adventure I don't remember ticking,maybe if I drove it more.Hydraulic lifters have a plunger that will start to move up towards the top of the lifter to compensate for the lobe losing lift maybe only to a point,somebody else can possibly answer that one.  WIEDER  

Yeah, I know the natural mechanical action of a hydraulic lifter self adjusts to a certain point and I thought about that. However, when I adjusted my valves, I only adjusted them 1/2 turn from 0 lash so there is not a whole lot of self adjustment there. I just figure that for an engine to be running noticeably bad that the cam lobe or lobes has to be more than just a little worn down or more than just a little damaged. Know what I mean? I don't know, maybe I'm just missing something here or thinking into it too much. Again, I guess anything is possible. I was also thinking that if I had say a "flat spot" on my #2 intake lobe, which might be the reason why the lifter stops and starts oiling sometimes just because the hydraulic lifter mechanism relies on momentum to send oil to the rocker. So, today I am going to make myself a dial indicator stand and set up my dial indicator on the pushrod side of the rocker and see how much lift I have. I think that is the only real way to tell other than taking out the cam and looking at it. Just as a note because I just thought of it, I always look at my oil real good everytime I change it just to see if there are any metal particles in it and I don't ever remember seeing any. So that is where I am at now. ZDDP is now my best friend by the way.  

I'm real curious myself when you get a chance to measure the lift.I'm glad that I've been able to help on some of this issue and you're able to benefit from all of our information.    WIEDER  

i just pulled apart my 350 sbc and found 4 lifters shot  on all 4 the lifters were worn concave badly  this engine never missed a beat,just got lower and lower power output.(get out and push!)  strangely enough it ran noticeably stronger when cool outside.  no clicks,poping or roughness  just gutless.   tore it down, measured everything  all measurements in spec on the bearngs   installed new standard bearings and plastigage is at .003  

I have used Permatex assembly lube (the red stuff) and good 'ol STP and have NEVER had a problem!  

Hello, I finally got to checking my valve lift and it is bad news. I ordered an engine turning adapter that bolts to your balancer first and that took about 5 days to get in to my local Advance Auto Parts. I have a crank turning nut, but I didn't want to pull my balancer because it is such a pain to get back on. It has a real tight fit. The last time I had it off I even lightly sanded the inside of it with some crocas cloth and lubed everything up real well and it was still a major pain getting back on. But anyway, back to the valve lift. I only measured one valve and it just happens to be the valve that I have been having oiling problems with. My intake valve lift should be .488, but it only measused .324 and I did it twice just to make sure. You guys were certainly correct. I have a bad cam. I didn't want to believe it. With all the cams I have had over the years, this is the only one I have had go bad. It's really strange considering I have 1000's of miles on the cam. I guess it is the lack of the ZDDP in todays oils. So now I am off to ordering a cam and lifters. I would really love to go roller, but that is so expensive. Thanks for all your help. I appreciate it. I guess I have learned something here and that is a good thing. Now I can help other that have the same problem.  

It isn't as simple as throwing in a new cam and lifters...

That metal needs to get out of that engine before it completely destroys every bearing surface possible. More than likely the galley plugs and softplugs need to come out for a high pressure cleaning.

If you think you caught it early you can take your chances but it will accelerate wear in the bearings no matter how long fast or slow it's ruining the lobe.  

Sound advice, I've rebuilt 2 engines from flat lobers.That's why this topic got me sucked in.   WIEDER  

lol  

Yeah, I figure there might be some metal particles floating around the engine, but I doubt that there is going to be much considering that this happened over a period of a 1000 miles or so and the oil and filter have been changed several times in the process. However, if these small metal particles are going to do any damage to my bearings then it is probably too late because I am sure the damage is already done over the 1000 miles or so that I have been driving with a slowly deterorating cam. The particles would also have to be very, very small to get through my filter and eventually make it to my bearings. But I don't doubt that they are that small indeed. I think I might still have one or two of my old filters and maybe I will cut them open just to see what I find. I think I am just going to install a new cam and lifters no matter what just because I only need this engine to last me through the summer as I plan on building a new motor this winter. So this can be like an experiment or test just to see what happens if anything. Maybe I will just get lucky. Anything is certainly possible. All good advice from everybody though. I noticed that Weider said he has rebuilt 2 engines from flat lobers. How extensive was the damage to other parts of the motor besides the cam Weider? I am curious. That would certianly suck to have to rebuild 2 motors just because of something like that. I would be pissed myself. Maybe you should bill the EPA for the cost of your 2 motors. After all, they are they ones responsible for the cut n the amount of ZDDP in oil. It's almost like a no win situation. I work at a power plant and the EPA has pretty much made it hell here. I am at work right now actually and the exhaust coming out of the stack is almost absolutely completely clear in color, but that still is not good enough for the EPA. Nothing is ever good enough.  

The most recent flat lober started to go thru the first layer of the rod amd main bearing.Cylinder walls survived with a lite hone and new rings and hot tank the block and .10 thousandths on crank.Not a major rebuild but neccesary.Now has retro roller still paying it off not cheap.    WIEDER