rice is

a fart can/big by huge wing/ decals telling theves what you got/and  the bling blink lights...

driven by a poser that couldn't drive it at the limit anyway...

that is rice...............................................

there are some truely fast imports  but they got mega buck in um..

1 nova/a 350 and a shot of happy gas  and I'm just as fast with 8000 in my pocket for  new toy to top the first one...

and if that isn't fast enough I can add a bigblock  what the ricer gonna do  add 4 turbos...  not..

can you not read? or has the stupidity of driving a ricer got to your head?

Hmmm, sound's like sombody is 10....mabey 12..... I don't drive rice, son, I eat it....

i know that alot of good performing cars were awd, but i still dont think they have the potential of a rwd car. sure it can handle and accelerate well, but with the additional weight and power loss, it will never be as fast as a rwd

They don't have the "potential" of a RWD car?

http://www.shepracing.com/videos/871.wmv

and rice is anything other than the original american companies. chevy, ford, dodge, ect. sure honda is now in america, but it originated in rice land

Thats a pretty ignorent way to look at things.

no, i believe 17 is more correct. as for your age, i cant figure it out. When you have no good response, you opt to make a smartass comment. so, i might as well return a few.

well good for you, you showed me a car that ran an 8 second quarter, whoopy do. rwd's have been doing that for a long time. when an awd or fwd car goes faster than a rwd car, then I might raise an eyebrow. rwd just makes more sense. we all know that as a car accelerates, the weight is shifted to the rear of the car, so it only makes sense to take advantage of this sitituation.

No, its not an ignorant way to look at things. Its a way of supporting our american companies and workers. I know that american companies make cars to keep themselves in the compact car sales, but I dont think they really like it. The cars aren't bad, but who really gives a crap about fwd performance? look at what american companies have been doing as of late, bringing back rwd performance cars.

I leave you with this; IN: Throttle steer  OUT: Torque steer. Thats all you need to know

"well good for you, you showed me a car that ran an 8 second quarter, whoopy do. rwd's have been doing that for a long time. when an awd or fwd car goes faster than a rwd car, then I might raise an eyebrow."

I just want to mention, John Shepherd's 8 second Eagle Talon TSi AWD has full interior, and can be driven on the street.

 "rwd just makes more sense. we all know that as a car accelerates, the weight is shifted to the rear of the car, so it only makes sense to take advantage of this sitituation."

Ok, so, you know about weight distribution during accelleration, so how could two EXTRA driven wheels in the front hurt? Why do you think most AWD vehicles have better 60' times at the track? So, it's almost like the same thing as RWD, but you also have some gripping at the front on take off...

There is nothing wrong with RWD most sports cars are RWD, I just fail to understand why you think that it poses more of an advantage over AWD.

"No, its not an ignorant way to look at things. Its a way of supporting our american companies and workers. I know that american companies make cars to keep themselves in the compact car sales, but I dont think they really like it."

First off, I'd like to say, American companies have been making sport compacts since before you and I were born. Dodge's turbo Omni GLHS, the Chevrolet Chevette among others are some popular sport compacts, and they were both made before 1987.

How could one of the Big Three "not like" making millions of dollars? Cars like the Dodge SRT-4 and the Saturn Ion Redline are quick, affordable cars, and are boosting sales in the youth market. Not since the hot rod era of the late 60's has the youth car market been so booming.

I'd like to let you know, also, that there really is no "import" or "domestic" anymore. Our car industry is a global industry, and even though your car says "Chevrolet", the body may have been made in Canada, the drivetrain in Mexico, and the electronics in *GASP!* Japan. Unless your driving somthing from the 50's or 60's, I doubt every part of your car was made in the states.

"The cars aren't bad, but who really gives a crap about fwd performance? look at what american companies have been doing as of late, bringing back rwd performance cars. "

Unfortunately, cars like the Pontiac GTO, and even the last of the Z28 Camaros are untouchable for most young people. I'm happy myself to see the return of such sweet RWD cars like the 300C Hemi, and the GTO, but none of these cars are really affordable to most 19-22 year olds. I'm not waving the FWD flag around, but at least there are options for guys your and my age who want a new car, but can't afford the $500+ monthly payments for a new Mustang GT or whatnot.

yes, but there are many rwd cars i'm sure, that can match that. took a look at the pump gas drags lately? Streetable cars running, well 9's, but without that fuel pump trouble, there would of been 8's. I'm willing to bet there are many other rwd cars that can run 8's with full interior.

The reason it hurts the performance is because of parasidic power loss through the transmission. It not only loses the power transmitted to the tires at the front wheels, but the back ones also. yes, they can accelerate ok, but what can they do after that? I say rwd's have the advantage because they have less moving parts, less power loss. Sure awd's get good traction but do you really see a 5 second awd car in the future? me either.

yes, i know americna companies have been making sport compact cars for years, but what i'm saying is that no one gives a damn. they had to start making cheaper, gas saving, compacts because of the gas crisis and such, and they eventually tried to find away to bring some excitment to these low performance cars. so what if they try to bring excitment to the youth market. who gets excited over a 15 second car?

yes, i know many parts for american cars are outsourced. thats not the idea. American performance cars are an idea all their own. They're not small and compact, they're large and roomy and provide comfort and performance not matched by the sport compact cars.

When it comes down to it, i'm just not a guy who would want to drive a fwd performance car because thats all i could afford. if i had to live in my car in order to pay the 500 a month payments for a new gto, i'd do it without complaint. then i'd make my money back by racing every buzz- bomb around with "performance" exuast.

"yes, but there are many rwd cars i'm sure, that can match that. took a look at the pump gas drags lately? Streetable cars running, well 9's, but without that fuel pump trouble, there would of been 8's. I'm willing to bet there are many other rwd cars that can run 8's with full interior."

Oh, I'm sure that there are. A Toyota Supra is probably one. Volkswagon bugs have gone faster too. Hell, me and my buddies could probably build a dump truck to run 8's. Anyhoo, the point is that a "dumb import" with four cylinders can run that fast, and do it with an engine that costs as much to build as a built LT1. AWD or not.

"The reason it hurts the performance is because of parasidic power loss through the transmission. It not only loses the power transmitted to the tires at the front wheels, but the back ones also. yes, they can accelerate ok, but what can they do after that? I say rwd's have the advantage because they have less moving parts, less power loss. Sure awd's get good traction but do you really see a 5 second awd car in the future? me either."

You have the right idea, and again, this is half true, AWD does have more parasitic loss, but when you have the power and torque to back it up, then you can take advantage of the grip. What do they do after the take off? Well, most AWD performance cars are also turbocharged (ie, DSMs, Lancer Evolutions, Subaru WRXs, ect.), so once he gets into the powerband, he's good to go. Sure, AWD sucks from a roll (compared to RWD or even FWD), but off the line, AWD has the upper hand, and thats a fact.

"yes, i know americna companies have been making sport compact cars for years, but what i'm saying is that no one gives a damn. they had to start making cheaper, gas saving, compacts because of the gas crisis and such, and they eventually tried to find away to bring some excitment to these low performance cars. so what if they try to bring excitment to the youth market. who gets excited over a 15 second car?"

No one gives a damn? Everyone knows about this F&TF bullcrap that has been a fad over the last few years, and it's safe to say that the neon lights and whatnot is not here to stay. But to say that nobody cares about FWD performance is ignorent. As much as I don't like FWD, I know lots of peple who are devoted fans to cars like Omnis, Sentras, Civics, SRT-4s, ect, and people who have made these cars into fire breathing monsters, cars who hand, say, big block Novas their ass. Would I want to work with FWD? No. But to say that no one cares is ignorent. By the way, the Dodge SRT-4 runs a bit quicker than 15 seconds in the 1/4, I believe it's in the low 14s.

"yes, i know many parts for american cars are outsourced. thats not the idea. American performance cars are an idea all their own. They're not small and compact, they're large and roomy and provide comfort and performance not matched by the sport compact cars."

Wow, so, once again, ALL American cars are large roomy RWD cars? Uh, once again: Omni, Cavalier, Corvair, Neon, SRT-4, Chevette, Daytona, ect..... Not all American performance is big and roomy. Especialy if were talking about Camaros or Mustangs here. Hell, even the Chevy II Nova was a "compact car" in its day! Once again, performance can be matched by anything....

"When it comes down to it, i'm just not a guy who would want to drive a fwd performance car because thats all i could afford. if i had to live in my car in order to pay the 500 a month payments for a new gto, i'd do it without complaint. then i'd make my money back by racing every buzz- bomb around with "performance" exuast."

Wow, you would live in your car just for a GTO? I wouldn't live in any car, it would be a hygene nightmare. As far as the $500 a month payments, "whatever floats your boat" as they say. I'm not rich, I can't afford it. Having a 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD and a 1986 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS kinda sets me back a bit, as it is.

I can tell by your posts what kind of mentality you have. Four cylinder= rice, "go American power!", and cars like EVO's and STis CAN'T EVER whoop up on some good ol' fashoned American Muscle ass. I'm here to tell you, friend, your wrong. I used to have the same mentality as you, and it wasn't too long ago. I saw these dumb ricer kids with their plastic-cladded Civics, adorned with the latest "wanna-be racer" go fast parts, that really didn't do anything. It clouded my perception on what was really fake, and what wasn't. I love my classic cars, I really do, I'm a die hard domestic pushrod guy to the bone, myself. But I can't deny, some sport compacts really haul, and have even surpassed what we used to call "fast" back in the day, and have set a new standard in motorsports, not just for small displacement engines, but for car racing as a whole. I'm not saying that you have to bow down to "rice", I'm just saying that you've got it all wrong.

What up Paul, I just registered because I was so sick of reading the " Import bashing " Reading some of these comments I find that my efforts to try to prove anything to you guys would be futile based on the intelligence level. As for me, I'm only 17 as well, but I'm not the average dumb 17 y/o ricer that you might run into. I'm the owner of the black talon DRSLT1 was talking about. I read so many bogus responses from the beggining of the thread until here and its impossible to reply to all of them because It would make you look like a joke and take up way to much time. But I don't see how you all cannot give respect to something that has all the disadvantages stacked up against them, yet still manages to blow your average DD v8 powered car. I pretty much took my car from a stock 15.1 car, to 12.7 @ 110, street tires, pump gas, stock bottom end STOCK TURBO. I beat the pants off of 04 Cobra's, C5 and C6 vettes, and basically any other modded v8 that dosn't have lots of money into it. My car has MAYBE 2k into it, and I paid 500 for the car. So as for your argument about fast imports having boat loads of money into them, false yet again. I think you guys really need to learn about new things before you bash them. " It's an import its gay " That is what most muscle car owners mentatlity is. " Oh it'll idle w/o me having to keep my foot on the gas it must be slow "  " Oh it dosn't have pushrods it must be slow "  etc etc I could go on forever, but you guys will never realize it because you refuse to accept something different.

Agreed. I love when domestic guys crack on "ricers" when they both have the same ignorent mentality. I go on Super Street boards and have to hear about "gay slow V8s", and come to Hot Rod and CC and hear sombody ramble on about "rice". It's pretty lame...

hi

o k  what boost you runnin..

what you do to the drivetrain to keep it from fraging...

I worked at a mopar dealership and that drivetrain isn't that strong..

you should've broken at least one axle shaft my now..

and head gasket sealing with high boost should be somewhat a problem..

so  tuner  what u runnin???????????????..

ours was a trade in that we used for fun...  ran 10's  but broke stuff left and right....

"It's pretty lame..."

Agree.  Personally, I could give a flip whether you're rodding a Chevelle or Honda.  But, nobody cares about what I think.  What's important to me is... rod whatever you want or can afford. 

Frankly, I don't understand what all the import whining is about.  Maybe jealously, or never having encountered a "b*lls out import."  I've been on these boards quite awhile and this debate never seems to fade away.  Boring. 

The Import Vs. Domestic battle is a gay one. I've gotten on boards such as Super Street and Honda Tuning, and posted on long, stupid threads with such morons talking about "battleship technology" "stupid leaf springs and pushrods" and "Camaros and Mullets". It's pretty lame for those guys to assume that all guys with Camaros and Mustang ride around listening to Lynerd Skynerd and hate "stupid imports", just as stupid as it is for domestic guys to assume that ALL imports are slow and rice, and that American cars are REALLY ALL AMERICAN.

I don't care where a car came from, what kind of engine it has, or how old it is, if it hauls, I dig it. I'm a car enthusiast, I love all cars, even alot of the ones that arent' particularly fast. People have to understand that we are all different and we all have different tastes. A guy building a Supra for the drag strip and a guy building a Duster for the drag strip have alot in common: both guys want to haul serious ass.

there may be a lot of fire breathing sport compacts, but i dont c any of them around here. and i dont see alot of them handin a big block nova its ass. alot of big block car owners put use simple bolt ons to make their cars a little bit more exciting. like my nova, all it has is a 454 with a carb, headers, and a slightly bigger cam. and it runs 13's with a peg-legged 3.08 geared 10 bolt and 205/75/14 tires (definatly not big enough). its simple and cheap with under 2 grand invested(including the car). not a fire breather, but enough to ward of most pesky imports. point is, put 5 grand into a v-8 and 5 grand into a 4-banger, and see what you get.

i dont know why you listed those american fwd cars, i was talkin about rwd muscle cars. yes, the nova was the compact car of its day, not to mention the grandma car, but to call it compact is a joke. i can fit me and 5 of my friends in it fairly comfortably. it helps when you have front and back bench seats.

sure i'm one sided on the issue, but i was raised around v-8s. the sound of a 4 or 6 banger with "performance" exaust makes me sick. there's nothin like the sound and feeling of a v-8. so, i guess it just comes down to how you were brought up around cars. so if ur willing to let the issue go, i am 2. but to those people who complained that this is a stupid and borin subject, piss off. no one is makin you read it, so dont. this is a place for people of different backgrounds to talk bout how the view cars. not to have someone whine like a little girl because their bored.

" point is, put 5 grand into a v-8 and 5 grand into a 4-banger, and see what you get."

That is the point. Every car/engine is different. Five thousand dollars will take you further in some cars versus others, and some, it's pretty damn close. 

Read a few posts back, my good buddy, DSMTuners95, has a 1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. It was made in Normal IL, by American workers, in a Chrysler/Mitsubishi plant. Its safe to say, it's an American car, or at least more American than the last Camaros, or the new Pontiac GTO, which we all know comes from Australia.

I recall my buddy smoking C5 Corvettes in his car with a big 16g turbo (minor upgrade) , stock side-mount intercooler, fuel injectors, air/fuel controller and a 255LPH fuel pump. I believe at that time with that setup, he had around $3k some odd dollars into the car, including the cost of the car itself.

So are ALL four cylinder cars capable of this amount of performance for the dollar? Mabey. Definetly not all.  Even most built Honda engines are pretty weak, and can't handle much boost, and have catastrophic engine failure before 300hp. But put it in a lightweight chassis, like a CRX, and youve got a rocket. Our engine, the Mitsubishi 4G63, is pretty much a race built engine from the factory, and can handle big boost.

There are also some V8's that are sorry as fu*k. Although most all Chevrolet small blocks have tons of performance potential, TBI and CrossFire Injected engines were damn near worthless from the factory. Pontiac at one time made a turbocharged V8 for the early 80's Trans Ams (4.9 I believe). It too, was a hunk of junk.

I too, was brought up around classic and muscle cars, and most of my friends back home drive your typical domestics ( Camaros, Trans Ams, Mustangs, ect), and they know what our cars (DSMs) are capable of, and they give respect. Even my good buddy, who absolutely HATES all imports, gives me props and at times seems very interested in my car and turbos in general.

The point is to keep an open mind. If I never droped the "Imports suck, I'll never own a four cylinder" bullcrap, I never would have found out about cool cars like DSMs and whatnot. Big block, big boost, whatever the case, fast is fast.

You give props to them for going fast with half the displacement, but then agian, their half the weight. Put that motor in an older muscle car (though the ground may open up and suck you straight into hell), and lets see how fast it goes then.

I mean no hate towards you but your comment did not make any sense at all.  Why would you put an engine that belongs in a smaller car in a big heavy vehicle.  I know this post is from the 20th of December 2004, but I could not resist.  If you asked me the same question I would just respond with, "huh...I wouldn't do that and that would not make any sense."

Do you ever race something your own size of do you do for easy targets to boost your ego.