Rice & Wennies

"Torque is everything, and the sooner you make it the faster you go."

That's debatable, and has been for years.  Try this as an experiment:  Make two runs down the track.  During the first run shift at maximum torque rpm.  Second run shift at maximum horsepower rpm.  Compare the two slips.  The second slip will have a quicker time.  Hmm.  Just something to think about with the ancient debate of torque vs. hp.

Peace.

I agree  

I'm not talking about at the strip, I'm talking about on the street. And you do know that HP is figured by how much torque you have at a certain rpm. The lower in the rpm range the peak HP is made the more torque you have. And the higher in the range that it is made the less torque you have. Basically if you have two motors that make 500hp but one makes it at 5000rpm and the other makes it at 9000rpm, the motor that makes it at 5000rpm will have more torque. What I am also trying to say is if your motor makes all of its power before 5000rpm, you will excelerate much faster than a motor that makes it's power at 9000rpm. Of course the cars would have to be geared for the different power ranges. And I know it takes the whole power range to run faster, but your 60 foot times are all torque. And your 60 foot times usually determine the race.  

As I stated before, if you believe it's all about torque then shift at maximum torque rpm rather than maximum horsepower rpm.  You'll quickly realize that it may be more than just about torque.

This topic is more complex than the manner you tried to describe it.  Much of your post is hypothesis which does not support reality.  This debate is as hold as the hills, and won't likely be resolved on the CC board.  

Horsepower is the product of torque multiplied by rpm.  Increase torque and/or move it further up the rpm scale, the result will be more horsepower.  This is the simple reason why competitive engines operate in the stratosphere.

Hey dude, who the hell do you think you are?  This is a AUTOMOTIVE FORUM.  Not a "I HATE IMPORTS FORUM".

Uh, have you read car craft lately?  Or even at all?  This isn't an import mag.  I could really give a damn what you guys are running, it's your car.  But, this is a v8 mag always has been.  So your import is quick, there's always somebody faster.  I still think you're doing somethin wrong with that mustang if it's supercharged and you think it's slow.  Either way, I don't really feel like startin a pissin match with anybody.  Just take a look at a car craft mag one of these days.

can't we all just get along and appreciate fast cars no matter where they're made. i admit hondas are't my bag but i can appreciate the work that goes into them to make them fast.

I agree.

Joe

sorry  but the only reason a car with a factory type tranny is faster down the stip shifting at  peak  h.p.  is that shifting that way puts the engine in the "meat" of the torque curve... and shifting at the torque peak puts the engine in the lower curve of the torque band....

put a  gearvendors  gearspilter in the same car and shift at 200rpm over torque peak and see that  h.p.peak shift timeslip eat dust...

your  "idea" has more to do with the trannies gear speads than  h.p vs torque...

"sorry but the only reason a car with a factory type tranny is faster down the stip shifting at peak h.p. is that shifting that way puts the engine in the "meat" of the torque curve..."  A very ambiguous statement.  The spread between peak torque and peak horsepower varies widely by motor combo.  Plus, how do you factor in the variance for different transmissions' gear reductions?  Motors and transmissions are not created equal.

"and shifting at the torque peak puts the engine in the lower curve of the torque band...."  Show me a competitive gasoline powered car which won a race by shifting at the torque peak.

"shift at 200rpm over torque peak and see that h.p.peak shift timeslip eat dust..."  200rpm over peak torque?  In a competitive gasoline engine, are you serious?

"your idea has more to do with the trannies gear speads than h.p vs torque..."  It's not an idea, it's reality.  Try it sometime.

Ok guys this is getting silly as far as the torque HP difference from light to light the Torque will get you there faster asuming all other variables are evenly matched I thought every one knew this as a given.  Just consider the two stroke four stroke debate with moto cross.  Of course on the QTM HP may be the determining factor who knows, but I know for a fact that I saw a 500 horse import {whose owner was balsy enough to put his dyno sheet taped to his pasinger window} get stomped on from light to light by a bone stock big block wagon.  Odly enough if they were at the track and got even a whole eighth the wide bodied import would have probably won.  This entire thread is just a pile of opinions some people like old cars some people like new cars and nobody is going to change anyone elses mind.  No matter what brand vehicle you have equal performance can be reached with enough cash.  unless you want a winkle/Rotory to have more torque than what most would consider a conventional engine, or you want a conventional engine to turn more rpms than a winkle/Rotary.  Who cares if its plastic fiberglass carbon fiber or steel every thing has distinct advantages and disadvantages.  Personally I like old bodies full frames and modern engineering.  As far as the viper vs skyline in town or any other race the car is only about 40% of the equation  The other 60% is the driver and the willingness to drive like its your last chance yeah a skyline has better suspension geomitry but you can turn most non boats at 90 if you know how.  DOHC while in Jacksonville area check out Biloxi area to not far most things are of pretty standard there are a couple real quick imports around there.  

I do not want to get into a pissing match either.  And I never said the Mustang was slow, it is fast, fast as hell, but is "mildly" modified with a Procharger pushing 12psi.  It is laying down (as of two days ago-retuned on a dyno) 390 hp to the wheelsand 410 ft lbs.  It runs pretty good for an old fox body.   The number 1 main reason I even have a fox body is because it was my first car.  And well, you know the story, young kid, fast car, highschool, I became a man in that car.   But the "other car" is pushing 22psi through a GREDDY T-78, yeh, that's right a T-78.  For the people reading this thread let him know what that turbo on a 91 S13 will do.  It was dyno tuned and built at SIGNAL AUTO, it was done right.   The cars are two differnet worlds when it comes to driving them.  The stang spools boost a little quicker but after the 78 gets spooled at around 3600 rpm, you better hang the *** on!  I am thinking I need to get a NEX intercooler sprayer to get that big bastard spooling faster.  Last night I met up with a damn 94 DSM and he was running a T-66, we ran door to door for about 3 miles until he started to pull, after we both were in fifth for about 2-3 minutes, my front tire was matching his rear, I knew my nissan was at max speed so I flashed my lights and we shut them down.  That was a good run!  I lost, but it was a good run.  My speedo was tached out at 120, but my rpms was at 6300 in 5th, we estimated our speeds to be around 160-165 or so.  That damn Eclipse was sick as hell, beautiful car.  The most disturbing thing was that It was absolutley quiet, damn RS-R Exhuast.  So yes, there is always someone faster.  I am done arguing, lets just talk about cars.  I just wanted to prove a point.  

I"m kind of curious about the mustang.  What are the cam specs?  What kind of stall and gears are you running?  What kind of tranny, does it have any modifications?  Did you set the chassis up for drag racing or road racing? 

This is a CAR CRAFT forum. The magazine is based on v-8 muscle cars, not crappy imports. As for your car, I would like to see it. My nova is no 10 second car, but its a legit low 13/ high 12 car. I have around $2,000 in the whole thing. 454 is not dead weight. It takes cubic inches to make naturally asperated power. Sure your 2 liter makes power, but how much would it make n/a. Well, I'm fairly sure your car isn't n/a. Hummm... thats what I thought. Eventually, I will add a supercharger to my car, but right now, the only modifications I have done to the car is an edelbrock 750, 396 oval port heads(stock), and a cam of around .500/.500. Nothing special. How bout you let me put a supercharger on my car, then we'll see who's faster.  

Yes, I wrench on my own car. I've been working on cars since I was a little kid, and I've worked on various engines from 1.6 liters, up to my 7.4. I know my car aint that fast, its low 13's/high 12's, but its all naturally asperatied. How much power does your 4 banger make n/a. You right, engines are about moving air, and thats what mine does. I will bet you I could build a badder big block than that small block you'd be building, as long as we stayed with the same type of induction. A turbo'd,supercharged, or nitrous assisted engine would have the advantage, so we'd have to stay the same. So, who need to know more about cars now????  

"m kind of curious about the mustang.  What are the cam specs?  What kind of stall and gears are you running?  What kind of tranny, does it have any modifications?  Did you set the chassis up for drag racing or road racing?