Reading Glad's editorial made me think, so I'm asking for advice.  My current daily driver is a '98 Cavalier.  It's ugly and slow, but at least it's a 5 speed and gets good mileage- 25+ in town, and I beat the living hell out of it.

My question is, should I sell the crapcan and buy a 70's/80's V8 RWD?  And if so, what should I get?

I would spend about $2500 on the car, and have whatever I get for the Cavvy to build it- about $1000-$1200 is my best guess.  I have kids and this would be a daily driver, so it HAS TO HAVE seatbelts front and rear.  I would like a manual trans, but that's not absolutely necessary.

Pros- 1) No more 4 banger crap can 2) V8 RWD

Cons- 17 to (if I'm lucky) 20  MPG 2) getting dirty

I am a BMW mechanic by training, but since I quit turning wrenches I'm a little loathe to get dirty.  I have the tools and most of the skills to work on my own stuff, but after beating the clock for 5 years it's no longer fun.  Replacing the fuel pump on my Suburban in the driveway just reinforced that opinion.

So, if your recommendation is to buy a new car, give me your recommendation for the vehicle and what mods I should do to it using the above budget.  I live in a snow state and the car has to be driveable for most of the winter since it will be my only transportation, so that rules out 800HP pro-street Javelins.  Some of you would drive that, but that's not me.  I'm a GM guy, but I'm willing to drive anything.  I almost bought an '89 LX notch, but decided not too at the last moment.  I got rid of the third gen I had sitting around, since I don't need a garage queen project.

Any ideas?  '68 Belveder 4 door w/383?  '80 Malibu Wagon with a 355 and 200-4R?  '76 LTD with.... whatever it comes with?  '81 Z28 with a 4 speed and disc brakes from a WS6 'Bird?  Stick with the 4 banger and save my money for a DZ302?

This is a serious question by the way.  I've been telling my coworkers to drive american for a couple of years, and after this months issue I think it's time to put my money where my mouth is.

Not sure what you like best but an 80's Tbird would be a good platform you could get one in that budget, with a 302 and then add a stick from a mustang after awhile, and most of the mustang go fast goodies will work.  I just passed on a 74 camaro the other day for 400 with a rust free bodie but then you would need a motor.  G bodies are an awesome platform from the Monte to the GN not many with a stick, but prices are low.  So many choices out there, although the T bird would be a good all around one for American, V8, Stick, decent looks.  Good luck  

Totally agree on the T-Bird.   A T-bird also hooks much better than a Mustang on snow.  No problem with snow tires.  Fairly decent with all seasons.  Sucks with drag radials . . . .

 Another Fox-body Ford, such as a Mark VII LSC, RWD Continental (not Town Car), '81-'82 Grenada, Cougar, '83-'85 LTD LX (not Crown Victoria), Fairmont, Zephyr, would also work as well as a T-Bird (most 5.0 Mustang stuff fits) and they are probably even cheaper than a 'bird.

The best winter RWD V8, however, is the ultimate modern stealth fighter--Ford Police Interceptor/Crown Victoria.   Build it cop style and fly "underneath the radar screen."  Hella tough, too.  But they are made in Canada, not the U.S.A.  Fuel mileage isn't the best either (expect only about 23 m.p.g. highway unless you're pulling some low gears). Although taxi companies drive up the prices on the best ex-cop units, some deals are still out there.  And it's big fun to scare folks out of the way when you pull up behind them in a blacked-out PI/CV.

When you say low gears, how low are you talking?  I like 3.20 to 3.30, particularly with overdrive tranny's.  What's the factory ratio in the LTD/Crown Vic/Grand Marquis?  And is it worth the extra effort to get a police package?  Any opinions on the mid 80's carb'ed 5.0 LTD's?  I like that old school boxy look with the square tailights, but I don't have any familiarity with them.  

4.11:1 & 3.73:1 gears will definitely hurt mileage, even with OD. 

Police Interceptors (PIs) in the '90s have come with 3.27:1 and now 3.55:1 gears. 

Crown Victorias (CVs) in various years have used 2.73:1, 3.08:1 and 3.27:1.  The relatively low-reving pushrod cars used taller gears.  The '91 and later cars use lower gears to compliment the torque curve of the 2V 4.6.

The only factory-carbed CVs after the early '80s were the 351W-powered PIs.  The stock PI 2v carb sucked, so an aftermarket 4bbl/manifold should be the first upgrade (be sure to keep the original for I/m inspection). 

Pre-'86 fuel injected CVs are TBI 302s (I vaguely recall the change to SEFI was the same model year as Mustang and Thunderbird).  The SEFI 302 engines ('86-'90) are similar to Mustangs but do not have the HO intake, cam or notched pistons and have a reversed upper intake manifold.  Nearly anything you can do to a 5.0 Mustang will also work on a CV, but the pistons must be notched for high lift cams. www.coolcats.net has good info on upgrading non-HO 302s.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/suspension/front/index.html covers the various suspensions used in the CV/PI since 1979.  PIs came with a significant number of upgrades (oil cooler, huge front and rear sway bars, higher rate springs, reinforced frame, high output alternator, etc.) However, it might make more sense to retrofit the good suspension bits onto a grandma-fresh, low mileage CV (especially because most of the square-lamp PIs have been heavily used in police, security and taxi service).  Good info on suspension mix-n-match here: http://www.crownvic.net/tech/Handling.htm

Ford built two-door CVs through '87.  Wagons hung on awhile longer, but no wagons in the '91-up era.  Ford did a minor restyle in 1988 and  major restylings in '91 and '98.  Ford made minor suspension changes in '91 and '98.  The 2003 and later suspensions and front chassis are significantly improved andl likely won't retrofit without some major work.

With kids, the washable vinyl rear seat covers of the PI model comes in handy.

Recent PI models have been criticized for occasional fuel tank fires and alledged "frame rust."  However, if you don't get drilled in the back at 85+ mph, the fuel tank is as safe as in any RWD GM car with a rear-mounted tank.  And the alledged "frame rust" problem is just in the minds of some lawyers trying to get rich off of Ford.  Nothing to worry about.

Note that the pre-'83 cars are badged LTD and LTD-S (the S models were fleet and police cars with two large rectangular headlamps)

I know you don't want a car port queen/project, but being a mechanic you know the urge to upgrade the h.p. will strike sooner or later. The G-body has an ample engine bay, which = more options. Even a straight forward engine replacement on a Fox body is a pain in the butt. As for tough suspesion, I've driven a G straight over a GOOD sized curb, didn,t even knock it out of alignment. Say what you will, we Americans must like our frame/body ruggedness. Witness the sales of SUV's/trucks all thru the 90's. About the time they quit making "Real" cars.   

Good to know that Chrysler hasn't made a "real car" since the early '60s . . . and AMC quit "real cars" long before that.

But by your standard, the only "real cars" still in production are the Ford Crown Victoria/Police Interceptor, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car.  Even the Camaro Craft's patron nameplate was only half "real" --and only that through 1981!  

A Fox-Ford engine bay will accept as big an engine as you'd ever want to drop in -- 550+ cube 460 strokers, Navigator DOHC 5.4s, V10s, 427W strokers . . . . 

Foxes are also easier to convert to manual transmission with abundant factory and aftermarket parts.  In contrast, the last manual transmission G was built in the days of Jimmy Carter, Disco and M*A*S*H in prime time.  Try finding one at the salvage.

Foxes have huge parts interchangeability with '79-'04 Mustangs.  Want Mustang bucket seats or a late model Mustang dash -- they fit.  Want a strong 8.8 Traction Loc with factory disk brakes and decent gears.  Easy! (G's, on the other hand were mostly built with gimpy corporate "10 bolt" rear ends that must be replaced for anything serious).  Want to upgrade to 13" '04 Cobra brakes and spindles. Not a problem.  

Want a factory sliding sunroof, heated power memory seats, trip computer, leather, climate control, power heated mirrors, automatic headlamps, air suspension . . . all are easy to source from a Mark VII or a RWD Continental.  But G-Body Crafters have to search for a few highly optioned Olds or Buicks or have to start cutting and fitting from other models.

Factory engines are no contest. No G-Body engines are fuel injected (except for the excellent, legendary, rare and expensive 3.8 Turbo)   Most Gs feature wheezing 305 Chevys or non-turbo 3.8 Buicks.   A few have 307/260 Olds, 301/267 Pontiac or 229 Chevrolets.   None of these engines (except 3.8 Turbo) are solid choices for performance build-ups.  Neither are all Fox engines, but the huge number of bulletproof 2.3 Turbos and 5.0s installed by Dearborn makes it more likely one can find a solid factory power foundation for less in a Fox than a G. This strong factory baseline is especially critical in states which test for emissions.   And even Ford's 3.8 V6 has an increasing level of aftermarket support.  That's not something you can say for a 301 Pontiac or a 307 Olds.

Keep your Cavalier. Take the editorial with a grain of salt because he lives out in Cali where old cars are literally a dime a dozen and the weather there allows you to run old iron year round.  

Well yeah I'm a GM/Chevy guy, even though my 1st car was a Mope. I have a 70 stang I'd "LIKE" to put a 460 in. Whats slowing me down is the $500+ headers. Is a fox body any easier on the wallet(exhaust wise)? When I was talking about G body engine bay options, what came to mind was 350/383/400+  cube small blocks, or even 454+ big blocks. That said, I do have an 84 Olds 442(Cutlass) with a 403 swapped in. Again headers not an exspensive nightmare.

The other thing I've seen many times is the old "fender bender." Alot easier to repair with a seperate frame/body. Cheaper as well. We used to call Uni-body, Uni-SCRAP. I guess the big Imperials had the last laugh.

As to manual trans swaps, Plenty of 4/5/6 speed options as well. Pedals? yeah you gotta get to the boneyard and search, could be impossible depending what state you live in. Come on Aftermarket, somebody repopping these yet????