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Ultradyne solid roller  
stroked96s10
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 03/23/08
05:57 PM

I picked up a ultradyne solid roller the specs are as follows= Billet steel, .638 in/ex lift, advertised duration 300 in/ex, 264 @ .050, 106 center line, and .930 base circle.

I will be using this cam in a 388 SBC motor, I have a full dart topend.  sportsman heads fully ported and worked by local engine builder 2.08 int, 1.65 exh valves, Dart intake, port matched and cleaned up, hedman hustler fender well 1 3/4 headers. As for the bottom end it is a full eagle rotating assembly with h beams, Balanced locally speed pro .200 domed pistons compression will be around 13.0-1 with 64cc combustion chamber. and the stall converter will be a 5000 stall.

Now my question is would this be a suitable cam for this motor as it will be a bracket racer?  


 
GibTG
Guru | Posts: 917 | Joined: 08/03
Posted: 03/23/08
07:52 PM

So, you do indeed have the ancient Dart II heads rather than the World Products Sportsman II heads?

I'm a little unsure about how large of valve could be fit into those cylinder heads. I guess they might just able to be fit in the old Dart II's but in a Sportsman II it would almost be impossible. So, I will assume that you do have those large valves in Dart II heads but I can say I sure hope you've addressed the shrouding issue when putting in a valve that chamber may not like too well...

I'm sure you know but heavy porting by backyard cylinder head gurus leaves a lot to chance in terms of actually getting the most power you can. I shouldn't talk being a backyard porter myself but If this engine ever sees a dyno or just doesn't perform up to snuff and you're running out of ideas consider the quality of the port work, even though there may be other areas that could sap power...

The big thing I worry about is flame propagation around that large dome in that old combustion chamber. Technology has passed by your components. Piston crown shapes have changed, combustion chamber shapes have changed, and spark plug locations have changed. When you get up around that 13:1 mark in a lot of cases power can start being sapped by poor combustion being limited to certain areas. Your engine will also have less quench action that it could potentially have if your compression is to stay around 12.8:1. You could argue that this doesn't push the dome into the chamber as far but it is also doesn't create as much pre-combustion turbulence that is beneficial in homogeneity of the mixture throughout the cylinder.

I guess this all amounts to you doing your part in reducing the work of the flame front in traversing those piston crowns. Knocking down any high spots and putting large radii on all the sharp edges makes sure that mixture motion can occur and helps flame front propagation. Also leaving a rough finish on the piston top helps a thin layer of carbon to adhere, which is best for power production and consistency.

A single pattern cam? Wow, you don't see many of those anymore! Especially since this exhaust port won't be the strongest and since your primary sizing may be a little on the small side you may look at ways to help the exhaust side of the engine a little...

To mention consistency again, I'm afraid some of the parts of this combination don't really favor it. I'm afraid that this engine could really fall hard not long after peak power with a very narrow LCA, weak exhaust port, and single pattern camshaft. Miss a shift by several hundred rpm's and it may make a difference.

I also wouldn't condone using a 5.565" connecting rod but it probably won't be too significant in terms of lost power...

Overall, I think the combination sounds alright. It's far from a max-effort build but I think it will serve you well. The engine will appreciate that kind of lift (and I'm sure even more), and the narrow lobe separation ensures that you get all of the power you can at and around the peaks. The engine will also probably appreciate a valve of that size as long as shrouding in the chamber isn't too severe. There will be sufficient compression for the camshaft size and as long as the gearing complements the large duration #'s it will be fine as well. A 5000 stall sounds about right...

Sorry for the book but I did make an extensive examination!  


 
stroked96s10
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 03/24/08
01:45 PM

The Heads were worked over and gone thru by a very reputable shop not a back yard porter, I got lucky enough to trade tile work for the work he done.They are world products dart II heads, They came stock with the 2.08 and 1.65. I was told they cc'd out to 219cc on the intake before he worked on them.  I still have to have the heads finished as I did not have a cam for him to match the springs to yet. The heads are angle plug if that makes any difference.

The rods are 5.7 eagles.
The header size was choose, as I was told not to go bigger  that I would lose  torque.
If I was to use this cam should I go with a 2" primary header?
and what solid roller would you suggest that would really compliment this set up?  


 
GibTG
Guru | Posts: 917 | Joined: 08/03
Posted: 03/24/08
05:16 PM

Your reputable shop is probably a lot different than my reputable shop. Even though it might be 'nit-picky' for a bracket engine: does this porter use a flowbench? Does he have ANY dyno data to back up his findings? Does he know what a pitot tube/probe is?

You're really confusing me with the cylinder heads. Dart and World Products are two different companies that, to my knowledge, were never merged. The Dart II was the brand name for an early Dart casting and the Sportsman II is the title of the old & new World head. As far as I know the Dart II would have spec'ed out with 200cc intake ports and 2.05/1.6 valves, and the Sportsman II with a variety of intake ports with 2.02/1.6 valves so since nothing is matching up I'm unsure of exactly what you have.

What part number of piston are you using? The only piston I referenced with a 4.06" bore, .200" dome, and of the proper compression height for a 9" deck with a 3.75" stroke had to have a 5.565" rod connecting it to the crank. If there was a part number I missed, please send it to me.

Your heads should have the potential to use a 2" primary well. If the porting is as extensive as you think, this will be a fine size to maintain good midrange torque.

I think that cam can be made to work. I can't recommend a camshaft that would differ much from what you have. It should be fine as long as your car handles that power range well.  


 
stroked96s10
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 03/24/08
06:21 PM

As for the first question is a yes, The company is called Brevard cylinder head. They build alot of pro mod motors and run several cars from the shop. I seriously doubt they would flow test my heads but that is a question I will ask him. and he will be the one to dyno tune it once it is together as I am assembling it.

I had asked him about a cam selection to run but have not got a answer yet except for go with a solid roller around  a 260-270 duration and .600+ lift so that is why I picked up the cam I did and desk top dyno showed some nice numbers.

The part number for the pistons are h635cp   .060  


 
GibTG
Guru | Posts: 917 | Joined: 08/03
Posted: 03/25/08
02:15 PM

Well, I am impressed if you plan on dyno tuning it, you are way ahead of the game, so to speak...

I did find the pistons somewhere, it's just that they are old TRW pistons that have long been discontinued.  


 
invegarating
New User | Posts: 33 | Joined: 01/08
Posted: 03/25/08
03:49 PM

Looks like a good combination to me,I am not to fond of the 5.7 rod but I love the 388" platform,it should make great power in the upper rpm range.
As was stated earlier it does not appear to be a max effort engine,but its better than sitting in front of a computer talking on a forum about what could be,so go out and run the rods out of it.
I think that the header size you have is fine,I am running a 406 with a slightly larger cam with 1 3/4x 1 7/8 step headers....remember that to big a header is just as bad as to small of one or maybe worse.
I agree with the last poster that the tops of those pistons should be deburred to remove any sharp edges,don't go crazy just remove the corners,and as far as quench and mixture activity I think that will rely more on piston to head clearance than piston shape,if the pistons are zero decked than keep the head gasket around .040" but if the pistons are down in the hole use the thinnest gasket you can find.
 Good luck,also this combination should be good enough for s/st if you like heads up racing.  


 
stroked96s10
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 03/25/08
04:25 PM

Gibtg,

Being that I want to run bracket everyone told me that it would be the best money I spent having it dyno tuned and save alot of aggravation. I believe the dyno is around $100 per hour and he wants to do it on the chassis dyno.

Inveg...

The pistons are (.010 I believe) in the hole. I was told not to zero deck it in case it needed decked later on.

and thanks for the input both of you this will be my first track engine and I will doing my homework for my next engine BEFORE I buy parts next time. It's definitely a learning experience that never ends.  


 
invegarating
New User | Posts: 33 | Joined: 01/08
Posted: 03/25/08
05:12 PM

If you are going to get 13:1 compression out of that combination than you are going to have to use a thin gasket,in the neighborhood of .020 should work well for your combination,you could use a steel shim gasket or I used a set of SCE copper gaskets in a similar combination.
I would be interested in the rest of the combination(trans.,gearing,tire size)I am guessing the converter is an 8"  


 
bigcam406
New User | Posts: 27 | Joined: 05/07
Posted: 03/25/08
10:00 PM

by the way,Dart and World products did have a partnership when the original "Dart 2's" went into production.Richard Maskin and Bill Mitchell couldnt agree on anything so the split was ugly.as far as your cam question,i'd recommend comp cams grind no.287tkr-6.this cam may have 5 degrees less intake duration at 50 tho,but it is more aggressive and will open the valve alot quicker than your cam.hope this helps  


 
bigcam406
New User | Posts: 27 | Joined: 05/07
Posted: 03/25/08
10:05 PM

sorry,forgot to ask what is your intake,carb combo consist of?  


 
GibTG
Guru | Posts: 917 | Joined: 08/03
Posted: 03/26/08
08:26 AM

Thanks for the clarification but I still don't see much literature on these heads...

I think it's pretty evident that they our outdated.  


 
stroked96s10
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 03/26/08
05:51 PM

The converter is a 8 inch, the gears in the truck right now are 4.10, the tire size is M/T 28x10.5x15 . The trans is a JW built th350

The intake is a Dart single plane high rise
The carb is a proform race series 850 mech sec.

Ignition is MSD 6al, Mallory comp 9000 magnetic breakerless dist., MSD blaster 2 coil  


 
bigcam406
New User | Posts: 27 | Joined: 05/07
Posted: 03/26/08
06:52 PM

sounds good,good luck with it  


 
invegarating
New User | Posts: 33 | Joined: 01/08
Posted: 03/28/08
12:38 AM

Looks like a real good combination to me,I don't know what you think it will go but I would say it will be in the high 10 sec. range.
 You may find that it wants a little more rear gear like a 4.56,but I would run it and see what the trap rpm is and adjust the gear accordingly.....good luck  


 
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