Yes, being deaf is a double edged sword, on one edge, no more buzzing sounds from cars and a wonderful night sleep and on the other end, I can't hear the wonderful roar of a big block Chevy sniffing nitrous or traction challenged cars.

Anyway, yes I have started to notice double farters now, but I didn't see the Y pipe you were talking about. It's ridiculous too. I knew that the larger the rims the more the engine has to work to move those rims so that defeats the purpose of adding engine hop ups because you wont feel the gains because these gains are lost when the rims were added and the wing added (drag). I pity those idiots.

I'm not for or against any car, although I must say my eclipse with factory wing handles better north of 100 than my chevelle by far, especially headded west on 70 between topeka and Manhattan, The sound they make is horrible even domestics fall victim to this my neighboor has an interpid with a new cat back syestem and flow master I used it this weekend for a parts run, that stuff gets old quick,  Not saying I would rather drive the eclipse but it does hold the road better with speed.  I think that the majority of tunners realize the rolling resistance of larger tires is a bit to overcome, althoughI believe it is more for the handeling.  Some imports are alright though I havent driven one yet that felt brutal down low and thats the part I like the best about domestic v8's  

I'll take a heavy car that can pull a hill at idle instead of a light car that can't hold a slight incline without using the brakes. To me it's all about the torque....something a Honda knows nothing about.  

i dont know about all of you, but my camaro hangs to the road as good as most imports i have driven, and it also makes you feel like you are in a real car. and if you wanna bring up handling, my older brother has aftermarket struts and springs on his gtp and it will out handle most any car i have seen (there are still a bit that can take it better) but his car will out handle any rice rocket i have seen yet.  

Agree with many of your points, I'm running an '84 ford capri (mercury capri to you lot) in Scotland. It's got a tiny 2.8 v6 in it but plans are to stick a 302 in there.

We have a different situation here because instead of 'imports' we have all the domestic sewing machines like ford fiestas, citroen saxos, renault clios- and these horrible little turbo charged cars with nasty pearly paint and massive wheels are generally kicking the arses of all of us with old school stuff- hence lots of us converting our old beaters to v8's and cosworth v6's.

Interestingly the most legendary of the 4 cylinder engines is the ford cosworth turbo 16v. Ford made these in sierras (rwd at least) and over the last 15 years
tuning gurus here have been making up to 700bhp (from 2 litres) and getting into 8's and 9's on the strip. You've got to respect that?

What pisses me off much more than these pocket rocket kids is all the car collectors driving prices of US muscle cars up as it's f cked any chance I evr had of owning one!

So, if you can't join em, beat em- 300hp in my capri is going to be more effective than 350 in a mustang...



I'm off for a burnout..  

*** here's another pic of my heap in case you're curious what a 'capri' is:

 

Horsepower per liter don't mean ####.  So you can make 200 horsepower out of a 2.0, it's still 200 horse.  I can make close to 500 out of a 6.2, and it'll beat the #### out of that little car.  Even if he's got better power to weight, there's only so much you can do with FWD or AWD for that matter.  Ever heard of a gear swap for FWD?  Or how about a stall converter for an import?  I've never seen either.  Ever tried working on one?  I have a hard enough time with my sbc in a camaro.   My car should run a consistent low 14 as it sits.  I've done a cam swap, gear swap, headers, intake, and a carb.  Roughly a grand in mods, and I started out with a less than ideal package.  Try finding a honda that will do that?  With the exception of a few specific models, most of them have trouble breaking out of 14's using spray!  There's a guy on the import boards called "Skinnye" he did a cam swap and other work.  He put down 110 horsepower at the wheels?  My car's stock smogger 350 would've put that down when I first got it.  The whole #### about them being the "new hotrodders" is ridiculous as well.  I bought my car at 16, i'm 19 now.  I know guys who are building 70's A bodies, G bodies, Fox Bodies, and even newer crown vics and caprices.  There's a least two 78-80 cutlasses running around my town with hot small blocks in them.  Both of the guys are younger than I am.  The rice burners have their cars, we have ours.  Most of them I have met are arrogant, but don't know #### about their car and pay somebody else to do it for them.  Imports aren't bad cars, most are dead on reliable.  However, most of them are far from race cars.  Most of them don't have the potential to go past 14's without an engine swap.  If you look at the fastest imports, they're either 6 cylinders or heavily boosted.  Some of the supras can #### move, but doesn't mean I have to like them.  

On that trip between topeka and manhattan, you didn't happen to get in a lil scuffle with a 2003 grand am gt did you. In late july, i was headed out to manhattan to watch the shrine bowl, and there was a eclipse making his way through traffic, and being the import hater I am, wouldn't let him get by me, so I let him get on my bumper and nailed it up to 115 (rev limit). From there on, it was constantly 85-115 till my turn off. By the way, that whole speil about your eclipse handling better at a 100 than your chevelle could go with out posting. Unless you suspension mods to your chevelle, the eclipse would handle better, its whats its built for.  

Yes, I have noticed that cars that can run low 14 and 13's are highly boosted and/or six cylinders. Japanese cars are very well known for their reliablity but Amercian cars FWD or RWD (the performance models of course) have that rough edge that gearheads love and what gearheads love the most is the brute punch that these cars can give. Example- Pontiac Grand Prix GTP the 5.3 V8 in FWD can run from 0 to 60 in 5.7 secs. That's using the front wheels. Sure it might have massive torque steer but that's cool because it means it has muscle. Of course who can forget the legendary Corvette or the Mustang or the Charger (all present time, not classic ones). Tell you guys the truth, I will take an American car any time of the day over a *** car. Ah good ol' american cars. No touchy feely, all brute punch.

No I havent been been in Ks. for some time, like four years although I'm trying to purchase a company in Lawrence right now.  The Chevelles suspention has been modified a bit although that actually makes handeling worse for daily driving, at least it hooks.  To those saying a RWD domestic can handel better than all *** imports consider the AWD eclipse and evo 8 when properly tuned such as the stock eveo8 mr2 can out handle a Lamborgini murcealago  Which no american car can compete with unless your dropping over 100grand.  And with some basic mods you can get 450 whp on stock internals.  Plus they are dirt cheap unfortunatly they suck to work on and blow head gaskets easily.  Oh and a good set of cams runs like 365 bucks.  I much prefer the manners of my chevelle although I wouldnt knock all imports because I prefer my domestic.  In the right hands they can be scary fast, I don't remember the forum it's posted in but the quickest stock turb eclipse was in the low 13's with no mods.  There are different gear ratios available as well as forged axles aftermarket blocks it's the same game as muscle cars cheap for some exspensive for others, some cars are all show and no go others look like a bomb and will rock your world.  I'm not one for show cars trailer queens etc... but some imports do perform.  

Mercury sold that style Capri in the US in the 70s.  I have seen some converted to v8 on other bulletin boards that run 11s or quicker in the 1/4 mile.  Nice looking car.

Tom

the basics are that every car has its strong point, and its low points. if the high points are outweighed by the low points then typically the car is discontinued. now stock there are some decent imports, those are not the cars that are typically hated on, the ones us head strong domestic guys hate, are the riced out, fart piped, stickered up pieces of fecal matter. typically these arrogant asses are the ones that watched fast and the furious too many times and think all nitrous is "NOS" and have no clue what makes their motor run. for all they know his block is bewitched and makes that one thing make the other thingy move. but because he has a yellow nitrous sticker, his car is fast. but maybe thats just me talkin, i dunno.  

1)  They look ridiculous.

2)  They sound like ass.

3)  A committed 5.0 Mustang owner with a Summit catalog and a credit card could eat 99.9999% of the import tuners' lunches with his efforts any day of the week.

4)  A committed Camaro owner with a Summit catalog and a credit card could do pretty much the same thing, only he'd have to work a little harder.

5)  99.99% of import "tuners" have a car that is modified in appearance only, with maybe some bolt-ons.  And especially in the midwest, most of them don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to actually being able to work on their own cars.  The ones that have actually been worked on and make real power are alright in their own respect, but the style is something that most old-school guys can't embrace.

6)  They make Camaros feel like Cadillacs when it comes to ride quality.

7)  Reverse donuts are gay.

8)  More than one person, unless they're small, feels cramped inside a lot of them, especially Civics.  Ever tried to stir it yourself when your shoulder is touching somebody else's?

9)  I need a screwdriver and a 5/8" deep-well socket to "tune" my car.  No computer, no programmer, no specialty tools, no dyno shop.

10)  100 HP/Liter is attainable with a V8, the only difference is, you go 11's, not 14's.  As for high-tech stuff, look at the modular Mustang crowd, and Cadillac's newer stuff.  Sick high-tech domestic street power is there, in force.

My friend owns a '74 Ford Capri (yes, that particular car was sold as a Ford in the States, they switched the name over to a Fox Mustang chassis in 1979 and sold it as a Merc).

You'll be happy to know, if you dont' already, that an aluminum headed Windsor V8 is about the same weight as the Cologne V6.

I've also seen a Datsun 240Z with an LT1 and a 300ZX with an LS1.  I'm all about the American V8 plants stuffed into little European and Japanese cars.  It adds an interesting flavor to them while correcting the problem that most CC readers have with the whole tuner thing.

I have no problems with imports.  I have a problem with the fact that most of their owners put a wing and 20" wheels on it and think its fast.  The most commonly modded imports are things like Civics, Integras, Celicas, and 240s.  Let's face it; they are nice economy cars.  Built for reliability and 30 mpg.  But if I'm going to build a performance car, why on earth would I start with an unimaginative suspension built for cost-effectiveness, a small engine built for ULEV status and not performance, and a flimsy unibody car?  I just wouldn't.

I can understand wanting to mod your favorite car.  I can even understand the desire to take an econobox and make it perform.  The problem is that people think these imports are a good basis for this type of modification.  I wouldn't mind it if they said, "yeah, I know it screams economy in every way right down to its completely mundane driving position, I just wanted to hop it up a little."  But they don't.  They say, "the civic is perfect to trick out." and then they proceed to put a wing on it, cut the coil springs but never get it aligned, and a body kit that never gets painted and call it fast.  They've in fact ruined the handling, and done nothing for straight line performance.  WHICH IS FINE if that's what you want, but then don't tell me its a "handling machine"

I have several cars that I've turned into something they were'nt designed to be.  I have a 73 Impala station wagon that is our RV; complete with fridge, A/C, and wired for 120v plug in.  I have a 66 Bonneville with a caddy 500 and a one-ton 14-bolt axle and front brakes that does heavy tow duty.  Sure I turn my cars into something they're not, but they started out as good basis for it.  The wagon had enough room to be our RV so it was well suited.  The Bonny had enough frame and weight to be a tow vehicle, so I made the chassis capable of it.

Even with the "properly" done imports, after tens of thousands of dollars they run 13s at the strip.  Here was my recipe for 11s... I bought a 74 Maverick 302 for $150.  Stripped it bare of anything it didn't need and got it down to 2275 lbs, spent $1000 on building the 302 myself getting it to make 450 hp, and sold the interior pieces and other things I stripped to make back the $1000 I spent on the engine.  So far the total investment has been about $450 with suspension parts, used tires and wheels, bondo and paint.  It runs a very traction limited 11.83 right now, but with the right slicks, shocks, and chassis tuning it should be good for much better.

If I wanted to build a handling car (which I did) I started with the right equipment; a BMW E30 3 series.  Making that thing handle was easy.  15" Momo wheels, sticky 215 rubber, and H&R drop springs and KYB shocks.  It started with a good geometry, not an economy suspension.

I just wish import lovers were more OBJECTIVE.  I know that the GM cars I have are probably the worst possible reliability cars I could buy.  They probably make more squeaks and rattles than any car on the road, but I at least acknowledge their shortcomings, not blindly say they are the greatest car on the road.

If you look at the average car owners, would you listen to someone who has all of his/her work done for them, or would you trust the guy with grease under his nails?  Those who know, don't buy imports.  Those who wear their baseball cap with a turned up brim and wear their pants on their knees, do buy imports.  You don't ask a CEO which scalpel to use for a standard ventral hernia incision, you ask the doctor.  I'm a car crafter.  I currently have grease under my nails.  You may ask me what I think.  And I think HP per liter is a sad excuse for only having 300 hp.  I can easily build 100 hp per liter, its just that I use Caddy 500s.  8.2 Liters... do the math.