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Posted: 12/08/07 08:57 PM
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WANT TO PUT NOS ON MY CAR AND WAS TOLD TO BOLT ON SOME ROLLER ROCKERS FIRST.SO I GUESS I WAS GOING TO GO WITH AN ALUMINUM ROLLER FROM JEGS BUT DIDNT KNOW IF I HAVE TO CHANGE THE VALVE SPRINGS AND PUSHRODS AS WELL.IF I DO HOW DO I MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT COMBINATION?
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 917
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 12/08/07 09:24 PM
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Alright, roller rockers are a good idea but it's not exactly a necessity for nitrous. The reduced friction may be beneficial for the extra rpm's nitrous will bring about but its nothing life-shattering...
How much nitrous do you plan on using here? What kind of RPM's are you going to be turning? Are these stock springs and pushrods you're considering changing?
Please elaborate on your question, "how do I make sure i have the right combination." Do you mean combination in terms of the engine staying together? In the engine's performance? In the entire car's performance?
P.S. Please don't type in all caps. In internet jargon it's considered shouting.
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Posted: 12/09/07 05:12 AM
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Go ahead type in capitals we here at CC LOVE IT! You're a free human being and can ask anything you like and whatever your capacity is of phrasing it.An intelligent person can read through the lines,this determines the real,universal GURU! OK.....1.roller rockers are generally chosen by the type and intensity of the camshaft design,whether it be hydraulic,mechanical or roller....Long term intended use of the engine i.e street or proffessional race car.........Valve springs are also chosen by the same criteria,specifically intended max rpms you want to achieve without valve bounce...........................Aluminium roller rockers come in a variety of strengths! Generally the cheaper they are per set the weaker the product and are prone to breaking under intense loads also if not set correctly......I prefer forged alloy/steel extruded rockers,yes they weigh alittle more but dont flex,absorb valvetrain harmonics better and last much longer with a better fatigue span than aluminium, even stamped steel adjustable roller rockers are a stronger cheaper just as effective option,good luck.
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Posted: 12/09/07 08:07 AM
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thanks for the feedback sorry about the caps,i didnt mean to yell.my motor is a 350 4 bolt bored .30 over iron heads and a truck/rv cam.the bottom end is set up using stock style components.i have an aluminum intake and a holley 650 with an msd ignition system(streetfire dist. w/6al ign)no egr no pollution control.i unhooked the motor from the computer,but the tranny is still plugged in.i want to hook a 150 shot on using a plate.i was told to use the roller rockers to increase the rpm range and make my motor last a little longer.the rollers will be the first step, the next will be picking the right nitrous kit.any suggestions for roller combos and nitrous combos will be appreciated as i have never done this before.oh yeah the car this is going on with is a 1988 monte carlo SS with stock tranny and 3:96 richmonds out back...i have had it up to around 7000 rpms the way it is,and it runs really strong
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 917
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 12/09/07 10:44 AM
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There are plenty of high-quality nitrous plates/kits available. Nitrous Express, NOS, Edelbrock, Wilson, etcetera. Everyone is getting into that business...
As someone mentioned, steel rockers are a more durable solution. But a full roller steel rocker is usually a very expensive solution, I don't see too much problem with aluminum rockers as long you don't expect them to live forever. Rockers aren't like aluminum rods, they're a little easier to maintain and inspect. Crane, Comp Cams, Scorpion, Edelbrock, Lunati, PRW, etcetera all make full roller rockers. This market is also chock full of manufacturers.
You really have to watch your setup with cast pistons and nitrous. A rich mixture, cooler plugs, less total timing, and plenty of fuel delivery capacity are all keys to a nitrous motor staying together.
If your confident in the current valvetrain at 7000 rpm then be on your way. But you didn't mention if the springs/pushrods are stock; because if they are 30-year old pieces then don't be surprised if they fail.
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Posted: 12/09/07 11:53 AM
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the engine was fresh less than 10k ago.it took me almost 4months to get it running right,but when i got it dialed in and ran it,I ran it off my stock tach,which only goes up 6000rpm.the plugs i am running are the bosch +2 and i have a holley mech. fuel pump.the intake is an edelbrock performer low rise and a holley spreadbore650 w/ an open 14"air cleaner and k&n element.it all goes out back via a set of flowtech shorties and cherry bomb vortechs(no cats for me).my main purpose was to run this on the street.no tracks since i dont want a roll bar or any other tell tale sighns of a hot rod,but i am shooting for a 10 second car here(high 10s).is this feasable?or do i need to get into the bottom end of my sbc?also am i going to have to retard the timing so much for the 150 shot i want that its going to lose its streetability?
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Mavman72
User
| Posts: 183
| Joined: 04/07
Posted: 12/09/07 12:59 PM
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You need to upgrade to a good electric fuel pump.Dont try to run NOS with a mechanicle pump,your asking for trouble.SBC's have pretty good bottom ends but I personally wouldnt want to give it a 150 horse hit on a regular basis.As Gib tg said if those parts are 30 yrs old,breakage isnt far off.Roller valve train will free up some HP as well as rpm but isnt absolutely necessary.Timing is another matter.It is critical to dial it in very well to maximise the NOS hit at rpm.There are many timing controll boxes on the market for nitrous applications.Do some research before you plop down the cash and toss a piston.NOS is great fun but it does require very good fuel delivery/controll and good ignition/timing set up.It aint hard,it just requires some knowledge to do it without blowing up your engine.Good luck,have fun.
Power is bliss Torque devine
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Posted: 12/09/07 01:31 PM
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I would never recomend runnig any a mount of NOS on cast pistons.You need to get a set of forged pistons heck hypereutectic pistons are alot stronger then cast a are only good for a 100H.P. shot if that.
Professional hi-performance engine builder
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Posted: 12/09/07 01:35 PM
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between upgrading to an inline elec. fuel pump and the power that goes to the solenoids am i going to be drawing my elec. system short?should i also upgrade the alt. as well?i dont have any other extras but a cd player.I wanted to have the nos activated at w.o.t,but I dont have a stalled converter in the car,should i get one?if so,what stall would you recommend?i dont plan on using the nitrous every day but want to have it there,just in case.
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Posted: 12/09/07 01:41 PM
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what about connecting rods,pins and rings should i consider that as well?I have a pretty tight budget and am trying to get out as cheap as possible,but i dont want to scatter the motor.I already blew the tranny and have to spend money and time to fix that.between the nos system and the motor parts i only have about $750 to invest<is this realistic?
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Posted: 12/09/07 04:25 PM
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If your alt. is charging properly I donot think you will have a problem but if you want to be sure I would recomend a 100amp alt. and a battery with 800 cranking amps or better.Connecting rods,pistons,piston rings and gaskets are things that should always be considered if you want the engine to stay together I recomend felpro gaskets witch is the only gasket that I have had hold up with NOS and sealed power moly rings witch to me is a must for forged pistons.I don't think $750 will be enough.I can't really recomend a coverter stall speed without the specs of the engine if you know the complete specs It would help also whats your h.p. goal you might be able to get there with out the NOS
Professional hi-performance engine builder
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Posted: 12/09/07 06:27 PM
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thanks for the info.my hp goal is somewhere north of 450.my car weighs less then 3000lbs w/ out me in it,and i want it to run mid to high 10s so i think that would be in the neighborhood.i think w/ all the info i gathered im going to have to hold out on the nos until next summer,my bottom end just isnt ready.my priority this winter will have to be the trans,but thats all right since the car wont see the road until march or april,maybe by then i can afford all the bells and whistles to make the juice work....more than once.i dont know the specs of the engine but it was bought a year and a half ago,by a friend,from pep boys as a replacement for his 74 blazer.who ran it for one season in his plow truck before the frame broke so long story short i bought it before the truck went to the yard.the casting # say that it was born in a 69 camaro as a 350/350,but the original 202 heads were replaced with the new iron units.ive never been into the block,i just installed a melling high volume/pressure oil pump and the other goodies we talked about.Ive driven a lot of cars and feel like this engine has about280-310hp the way it is now.it makes the best power north of 3200rpm(according to my right foot)
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Posted: 12/10/07 06:41 AM
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OK 450 H.P. won't be cheap but unlike NOS it will be there all the time. Heres a combo that will get you to your 450 h.p. goal edelbrock torker(2) intake,a good flowing set of heads depending on the heads you have may be you can use the ones you got and port the intake & exhust ports as well as the pockets 650cfm carburetor,2.02/1.60 valves a 9.5:1 compression ratio and a lunati street master cam kit P#07101LK with this set up you should pull over 450H.P. out of your 350 small block.Good luck hope this helps.Also you might want to check out www.northernautoparts.com
Professional hi-performance engine builder
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 917
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 12/10/07 08:18 AM
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We need to know more about what you actually have. What are iron heads? Smogger '80's heads with bathtub chambers, vortecs, or aftermarket? A casting number usuallly helps verify what you have (if it's OE) and what kind of potential is there...
"Pontiacman" brings about a good point that factory cast or el cheapo aftermarket cast pistons are asking for trouble with hardly any nitrous. I would feel fairly safe with a 100-125 shot on a hypereutectic piston but I would say 50-75 on stock piston is all I would want to try. Even then, if you have cheap cast-iron rings that are gapped tight (or even standard) they might get a little hot and lose tension or let loose the ring land of the piston. It's a big risk, if you don't care about losing the motor put nitrous on it the way it is now but otherwise think this through a little more...
Are you expecting 450+ horsepower naturally aspirated or with the nitrous on?
"Pontiacman's" combination leaves a lot to be desired. It's one thing to tell you to go port a set of stock cast-iron heads but doing it is a whole different story. This requires a tremendous amount of research, practice, and equipment. It's not for the faint of heart. This is better left done by a professional in most cases, and this is where it becomes more practical to pick up aftermarket cylinder heads as it can be cheaper in the long-run than paying a professional head porter...
I have ported about a dozen sets of cylinder heads in my short building engines but I still realize that I am far from perfect. The way I see it is: the low-buck backyard jobs just see a basic hand-port for a few hundred bucks, the medium-effort jobs see a flowbench for basic numbers, and I'm not even going to see max-effort heads on my workbench. I have never messed with a pitot probe on a flowbench and I realize I'm leaving a lot to be desired for a max-effort head. So, if you really want the most out of a set of heads that you want ported, pay top dollar and have someone do it that knows what they're doing. Like I said, this almost always turns into someone buying aftermarket (or just better) heads.
Also, the Lunati cam that was recommended is decent but there are more aggressive profiles out there. About all I can relate to you is hydraulic intensity numbers, where you will find more intense profiles on other grinds such as the Xtreme Energy and Voodoo cams. Both of these profiles of course will require more valve spring pressure and thus have shorter life-spans but in many cases with performance engines you have to balance power-production and durability...
The torker intake is meant for low-hood clerance applications, SO it should only be used for low-hood clearance applications! There is much more potential in a Performer RPM manifold for only about $50 more.
I second the recommendation of upping the compression ratio. Since you are increasing the camshaft's duration it needs to be accompanied by an increase in compression to offset the worsening of burn quality at low speeds. Obviously this doesn't cope too well with nitrous but the increases should be small enough that you won't have any problems as long as you use high-quality fuel and have some good prep time put into the spark plugs.
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Posted: 12/10/07 12:20 PM
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Like I said it depends on the heads you already have this is not gess work these are parts I have used before and you will see a power loss going to the performer RPM intake because a single plane intake will give you peak H.P. over a daul plane do some research and check out some combos all or most will be using a single plane intake.Gibtg has a really good point about the head porting it should be done by a professional.I do all my own work and porting jobs and some times I forget that not every body can port heads correctly.If you don't like the torker 2 than you could always use a weiand team G intake if you have the hood clearance for it witch will out perform both edelbrock intakes but cost more.I personally don't like comp cams tried different ones and would not recomend a comp cam but other people will probably disagree.
Professional hi-performance engine builder
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