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electronic fuel injectors controlled by conventional distributor?  
juicedcoupe
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 11/06/07
05:42 PM

Well....... First,let me say that I still suggest the Megasquirt. You should
at least check it out. Also,its cost is is cheap(Ive been thinking of buying
one just to play with). the prices you quoated for equipment are very high,
you should look around some more.

Buuuut.... If you insist on doing this, think about this. A batch fire
injection(all at one time)is much easier to control. First,you will need a
signal. Maybe a junkyard crank triger can be adapted. This will allow the
injectors to only fire once per rotation. Second, a sliding,variable resistor
will be needed to vary injector power through the throttle linkage. Think
of a slot car controller or the mechanical speed controller on some RC
cars. You will probally also need some type of resistor packs to keep from
injectors from burning up. Also, you will need VERY high quality relays to
up to that kind of usage(think about 6000 rpm).

This idea is very crude. It is not load sensitive and would have to be tuned
with fuel pressure. I still dont recomend this,but if you are going to do
do it anyway,these ideas are some good places to start.  


 
powerdreams
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/10/07
04:56 PM

howdy y'all. I smoke brigestones whats your brand? fastest and howmuch hp to pop both rear tyres? 800hp and 22seconds stock tyres!  


 
sams75zam1
New User | Posts: 15 | Joined: 10/07
Posted: 11/10/07
08:21 PM

ummm, i read this in a paragraph above but i wouldn't think six psi of pressure at idle would be enough to atomize the fuel coming out of the injector would it?
The lowest i've heard of is 15 psi at idle. i guess it depends on the design of the system.  


 
powerdreams
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/12/07
03:36 PM

In real terms, at idle there is only a trickle of fuel to keep the engine kicking over. Some carbs run at 6psi throughout the entire rpm range.But yes, I'd agree fuel would'nt atomise at 6psi through an injector.  


 
powerdreams
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/18/07
03:43 AM

does anyone know how far fuel is atomised via a conventional EFI injector and can an injctor be bench tested and if so how exactly and there are two wires going to each injector,what are they? how is the ijector earthed.Can you trigger an injector manually? i.e with a car battery and two wires?  


 
TheSilverBuick
Enthusiast | Posts: 735 | Joined: 02/06
Posted: 11/18/07
07:47 PM

Of the two wires going to fuel injectors one is a 12v+ from I'm guessing from the ignition switch, the ground is linked back to the Computer.  An injector can be triggered by a car battery but if activated/held open too long it will burn up the injector's solenoid.  


The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.

http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/

 
powerdreams
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/18/07
11:56 PM

Thanks for that.what if you pulsated that battery power?or would the solenoid eventually heat up and fail? I was under the assumption that,the injector was designed to recieve a continuous intermittent 12v charge or pulse.,,..,,Thats originally why I assumed that it should be easy to operate the injectors via distributor.......Even though high coil current it's still 12v! and cosidering the minute time duration of the distributor pulse,I guessed that it might actually work..............I would'nt mind aquiring a second hand injector,connecting a flexible fuel line and perhaps run water through it instead of petrol..............Or find a resistor to resist enough shock to make it work.Have you ever experimented?  


 
CSIROC
Enthusiast | Posts: 744 | Joined: 11/05
Posted: 11/19/07
07:02 AM

Ummmm...the coil amplifies the voltage to around 50,000 volts.  Its 50 kV going through the plug wires...not 12.

And you definitely need to read this...

LINK

In particular the part about engine controls and performance...perhaps then you'll realize just how far off this idea is.  


68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

 
TheSilverBuick
Enthusiast | Posts: 735 | Joined: 02/06
Posted: 11/19/07
10:42 AM

CSIROC is correct, even though coil voltage is 12v, the spark is generated from the magnetic field collapse (look up Tesla Coil) caused by power being cut to the coil.  When the magnetic field collapses it generates a extremely low current, extremely low duration, extremely high voltage which is enough to produce a spark, but not drive any solenoids or relays.  You need to look at the over all wattage (power) generated, not just the voltages which are decieving.  There is not enough watts available in the spark plug wire to do anything but spark, basic basic electronic principles.

You can cycle a fuel injector with a mechanical relay but it would burn up relatively fast (several hours??). Holding a steady 12v and ground to one could over heat the injector solenoid and fry it.  


The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.

http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/

 
TheSilverBuick
Enthusiast | Posts: 735 | Joined: 02/06
Posted: 11/19/07
11:06 AM

*Also anything above a few Ohms of resistance above the average spark plug wire will use up the available wattage (converts it to heat) by downing the voltage and effectively reduce the voltage below the threshold to create a spark.  


The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.

http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/

 
CSIROC
Enthusiast | Posts: 744 | Joined: 11/05
Posted: 11/19/07
02:32 PM

Sorry, but I'm really getting the feeling you don't have the mechanical aptitude to pull this off right now.  Take a few months and research each component.  Go to a library and check out a physics text book.  You need a lot more information about how things work before you'll be even close to pulling something like this off.  

And SilverBuick is right...there is only so much POWER going through the plug wires...most of the time we prefer that power to be used to ignite the fuel mixture...you'll need a lot more power to run an injector at the same time.  Its not all about voltage OR current...its about both together.  


68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

 
powerdreams
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/19/07
05:16 PM

CSIROC the link did'nt work if you give me the url I could access the information.It was blocked by a pop up continuously,strange?..............Anyhow I really do appreciate all the information,at the very least I'm aquiring a better understanding given that your information is true and correct......I've often assimilated the spark from a plug to that of a piezo ignition(what you use to light a gas burner)Lol,it seemed harmless enough.  


 
CSIROC
Enthusiast | Posts: 744 | Joined: 11/05
Posted: 11/19/07
08:03 PM

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-injection.htm

Link worked for me...so not sure whats going on with your end.

But seriously...take some time and read up on whats actually going on with these devices...and definitely look at some basic physics (in the electro-magnetic sense).  This is an awfully ambitious project...and to just dive in making assumptions will cost you a lot of time and money.  Good luck with the thing.  


68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

 
powerdreams
User | Posts: 87 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/19/07
08:35 PM

Thanks for the info.  


 
n70va
User | Posts: 56 | Joined: 11/07
Posted: 11/20/07
01:24 PM

i'm going to build a magic motor that runs on magic, and brag about it. when you tell me it's impossible, i will argue with you and ramble on about how many imaginary friends i can put in the car with the magic motor. i will stumble onto humble tech sites, and badger all those who disagree with me. lol. just kidding. good luck with the, umm, thing. i wonder if this article will be mentioned in the next CC.  


 
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