|
Num Posts
Sort Order
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/24/07 09:19 AM
|
|
I have a 1980 trans am cal edition with a 302. I want to put a bigger motor in it but I dont know what will work? What 350 or bigger chevy engine would be direct bolt up to mount and transmission? What has to be done to convert from a normally asperated engine to a fuel injected engine? It would be nice to put a new GTO engine in it but I don't know if that's possible.
|
|
Posted: 09/24/07 10:34 AM
|
|
Are you sure it's a 302? There is a Pontiac 301ci (4.9L) engine and a Chevy 305 (5.0L) engine offered that year. Depending on which you have will determine what will bolt in. If you have the Pontiac engine then any Pontiac engines made after 1970 (because of motor mount holes) will bolt in, but you will need the accessory brackets that match the older engine. If it is a Chevy than any small block chevy will bolt right in. To go from pontiac to chevy or chevy to pontiac all you have to find is the frame mounts (what the motor mounts bolt too) for the brand you want in a junkyard off any second generation F-body. There are kits out there for Fuel Injection, a lot of kits out there for the chevy. If you want a new GTO engine just find a kit for installing the LS (GenIII) series engines in second generation F-bodies.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/24/07 12:51 PM
|
|
Sorry it is a 301 engine. Do you know any good websites with the information that I'm looking for?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 09/24/07 02:20 PM
|
|
Summitracing.com and yearone.com are good places to start. First you probably need to decide what brand engine you want to go with. My preference would be the Pontiac 400-455. Here is a kit that has the frame brackets necessary to bolt a LS engine to:
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=4
The 301 parts aren't really compatible with other pontiac engine parts, they were thin casted and actually weigh less than the small block chevy, so generally don't make a good foundation to start from. I'd build the engine and drivetrain you want then get what you need to bolt it in. Any suspension and engine swap kits you see for a 2nd generation Camaro will also work on your Firebird.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|
|
Posted: 09/25/07 06:00 AM
|
|
The 301 is a Pontiac engine, not a GM corporate like the 305 or 350. They were anemic in their day, even the turbo versions.
You've got some options here. You could look at getting a Pontiac 350 to replace your 301 with, and build it up to a nice performer. Edelbrock is making heads for these engines, so you can help yourself there, and the cam companies have hydraulic rollers available.
Or if you could score one, I'd got with a 400 motor. Lots of torque that'll motivate your T/A nicely. Again, get some Edelbrock aluminum heads that flow great, a good roller cam, good intake/carb, ignition, and it'll bolt up to the trans you already have in your ***
You could also do an LS motor in the car, but my preference would be to stay true to the poncho heritage and find a Pontiac mill for the car.
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/25/07 09:27 AM
|
|
I think i am going to go with the pontiac 350. what cars can i pull that from, does the 3rd gen firebird motor fit in the 2nd gen?
|
|
Posted: 09/25/07 10:58 AM
|
|
There was no 3rd generation Firebird that came with a Pontiac 350 or any Pontiac engine for that matter. If it is a 3rd gen Firebird and a 350 then it is a Chevy 350, and you WILL need frame mounts from a 2nd gen Camaro with a Small Block Chevy. For a Pontiac 350 you have to look in Pontiac's between 1968 to 1977. When it comes to Pontiac engines costs are essentially the same for the parts from the 326 to the 455 so I wouldn't limit yourself to the 350. Any of them can be built to make power (but cubic inches help) and they all weigh essentially the same for cornering and ride height. Bolt on's like Heads, intake, headers will transfer from one to the other, so if you start with a 350 and decide you want to go to a 455 later then all the bolt on upgrades to the 350 will bolt to the 455, and this includes accessory brackets.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/25/07 09:50 PM
|
|
well i know its not a pontiac motor but i found a chevy 454 big block at the local salvage yard for a good deal, will it work? i am on a buget and i have only ever worked on motorcycles so I am looking for something that is easy to install in my trans am that will give me power to have some fun with.
|
|
Posted: 09/26/07 08:08 AM
|
|
If you can track down Chevy Big Block mounts for a 2nd Gen Camaro then it shouldn't be too tough. I had forgotten to mention you will need a new transmission or an adapter plate at least because the Pontiac bellhousing is different from the Chevy.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/26/07 08:28 PM
|
|
so i was trying to jump start my car and i put the keys in the ingnition and turned over the engine and it almost started so i went and sprayed some starter fluid in the air cleaner and when to try again and as i tried again all the electrical systems died. i left the key turned in the ignition when i went to spray the starter fluid so i think i blew a fuse or or relay. can anyone help? where do i start?
|
|
Posted: 09/27/07 06:01 AM
|
|
I'd start by following the Battery Cables, make sure they are tightened down at both ends and haven't worn through the insulation against anything. If you connected the jumper cables backwards then a main fuse could have blown, but if the car cranked (even a little bit) then that shouldn't be the case.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/28/07 09:24 AM
|
|
so it was the battery cables so i hooked up the sound system that came with the car because the last owner said it drained the battery to see how it worked. then i hooked up i the jumpers and turned it over then sparks come of from the fuel gauge which is digital? so i stopped and disconnect the system again then try turn it over.It turned over once then died and started smoking from the hood. the connector on the wire going to the alternator melted?! what the *** is happening?! so after inspecting under the hood a bit more i found a police siren under there and a plug to plug my car into a wall plug?? so i think there is some serious homemade wiring in this car. I will post some pictures tonight to show you guys. about this engine, this 301 sucks, only thing it could be useful for is to anchor a boat. unfortunately i am in collage and married so i don't have a lot of money to drop ls1 or something just because of all the modifications involved. i want to know if i could find i good L78/W72 400 block or other pontiac motor could i most of the parts on the 301 ie carb, alt, starter and use all the old accessory brackets and headers. What parts would i need besides just another block? What would be the easiest and most cost effective way to go and still have potential to build up more HP later? thanks for all your replies so far you guys have been great.
|
|
Posted: 09/29/07 07:51 AM
|
|
Yeah it sounds like some bad wiring. You must have a bad/shorted wire before the fuse box (and after if the fuel gauge is having issues) to burn up the Alternator wire. When you replace that wire make sure you get a Fusible Link wire for it.
The cheapest and easiest conversion will be to another Pontiac engine however the 301 is a bas tard engine of the Pontiacs and not much is transferable except the standard GM parts. So the Starter, Alternator, carbuerator, fuel pump and distributor will transfer, but the accessory brackets are "probably" different because the 301 is a Short Decked Pontiac block so I would assume the geometry of the brackets had to change to accomodate the shorter deck (like clear the water pump). There is a chance that the brackets will work and just would need longer belts though, I am not sure about the mounting accessory hole locations on the heads either compared the the standard Pontiac V-8. The headers may work, but the deck is significanly shorter and consequently will lower the headers compared to other Pontiac Engines.
**Doing some reading, it looks like Standard Pontiac Heads will bolt onto the engine but I think you are still limited to the stock intake manifold. A good set of Pontiac 350 heads should bolt right on (<4" bore vs. your 4" bore) but you would have to check the intake port alignment because from reading it sounds like the intake ports are siamesed on the 301.
Still sounds simpler to me to get a regular Pontiac 350-455 engine and drop it in. The electrical problems are another issue.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|
HunterT
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/29/07 08:16 AM
|
|
Yeah after some resarch a pontiac 350-455 seems to be the way to go but i am having trouble tracking one down.
|
|
Posted: 09/29/07 03:01 PM
|
|
I'd take my time looking for an engine and get the electrical sorted out first.
The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/
|