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semperfiguy98 semperfiguy98
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/02/07
05:58 PM

I'm a Chevy guy, but the wife likes old Cougars.  Just got a '72.  Now I have to learn a bunch of Ford stuff.  Like why does Ford have 3 different 351's?  


 
TheSilverBuick
Enthusiast | Posts: 689 | Joined: 02/06
Posted: 06/02/07
07:20 PM

Why did GM make 4 different 350's? (Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick) Because they could, I'm sure it was the same with Ford. What I don't now about the Ford's 351 is how they determined what vehicles got which 351. GM's was fairly straight forward (at least until the corporate standardizing).  


The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455&TKO-600, '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428&C6. Needing to replace a '69 Firebird 400.

http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/

 
Mavman72 Mavman72
User | Posts: 183 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 06/02/07
08:53 PM

Engine choice for the fords was usually determined by: vehicle type,use,options and emissions standards once they came into play.If you think about the engineering changes made to the 351 over the years there are probably 10 or 15 different ones.If you want info on the changes let me know.  


Power is bliss Torque devine

 
semperfiguy98 semperfiguy98
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/03/07
07:10 AM

Ok, like I said mine is a '72 model with a 351 Cleveland 2V.  What can you tell me about that?  Was that a decent performer?  What about typical rebuild cost? (It runs) And it has a FMX transmission.  Were there manual trans choices for that car?  I don't know anything about Fords, but I'm willing to learn.  What are some resources I should look into? I don't want to sound like I'm a dummy or anything, but I've been playing with Chevys all my life and most of these magazines like to write a lot about Chevy.  So now I'm going through all the tech articles here and at Hot Rod to find Ford info.  


 
sixtninecoug
User | Posts: 107 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 06/03/07
11:39 AM

the 351C shares a bellhousing pattern with he 302/351W so anything that you can use with one of those will bolt up. T5, AOD, C4, C6 are the most common choices. They did offer a manual trans option that year, but they werent common at all.  72 was when some of the smog regs took a pretty good hold so the engine you have is a lower compression version but thats easily rectafied with a rebuild (if you are gonna do that anyway). its not too difficult to find parts for the Cleveland so hey, have fun with it.

72 Cougars didnt sell as well as the earlier cars, but they have alot on the earlier cars too. better interiors, better brakes and suspension too. they all had 9inch rear ends so thats a plus. interior parts are hard to find, so if you need anything, start looking now. i think they repop door panels now though. sounds like a decent project, post some pics.  


 
Mavman72 Mavman72
User | Posts: 183 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 06/03/07
12:13 PM

Yes your 2v cleveland is a good performer.Its a motor that responds well to basic mods.It does differ from the windsor motors in a few areas.First is the canted valve heads(similar to a rat motor in valve/rocker arrangement)But clevelands use pedestal style rockers similar to newer 302 and 351 windsors.Since its a 2v motor you should have a hydraulic 0 lash valvetrain.The 2v heads have smaller chambers and valves than the 4v heads.The smaller heads are better for a street car than the 4v heads as far as bottom end grunt off the line is concerned but they dont breathe as well as the 4v heads so if you do beef it up keep your cam/carb conservative.Clevelands use a piston that differs from windsors as well.you cant interchange them.Wrist pin location and skirt design are different The pistons are also different from 2v to 4v engines.2v motors got dished or flat tops while 4v got flat tops and domed depending on application.Clevelands have bigger main journals than windsors also.Stroke and bore remain the same as windsor 351s'.You have the last of the good motors, after 72 ford got cheap,the blocks got thinner and lighter,the cranks got softer.The chambers were opened to decrease comp ratio(your motor should be 9.3/9.7 to 1)If it were a 4v it would be 10:1 to 10.5:1. As far as rebuilds/build ups are concerned cost is more than your typical small block but less than a big block chevy.That can change rapidly if you switch to alloy heads forged pistons etc...They are easy to make power with though,cash out lay can reap bigger benefits with the cleveland platform because of its head design as opposed to a mild small block chevy with stock heads(of course that depends on the type of small block chevy)But they do respond well to simple mods.HP automotive books is one source."How to rebuild yourFord v-8-351c-351m-400-429-460"by tom monroe is an excellent source of info on the cleveland.Also Ford performance by Pat Ganahal is super as far as hopping them up is concerned.The FMX slush box is the predicessor to the C-6.Parts are available to beef them up but you can change it over to a C-6 if you want to. They share the later 6 bolt bell housing pattern Which I believe changed in 67 or 68 from the 5 bolt pattern.Going from chevy to ford isnt that far a stretch.An air pump is an air pump regardless of who designed it.Good luck young padawan and may the Ford be with you.(Korny I know,couldnt resist,sorry)  


Power is bliss Torque devine

 
SSedan64 SSedan64
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/27/07
03:40 AM

I'm Chevy to the bone but Factory Small Block Chevy heads don't even compare to the Cleveland heads with the canted & splayed valves. I've seen many a Cleveland whup up on SBC350s. How do the 2V heads respond to mild porting and bowl work for the upper rpms?
SSedan64  


 
Mavman72 Mavman72
User | Posts: 183 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 06/27/07
02:48 PM

If you know what your doing with them and are going to keep it on the street side of the performance curve,Simple clean up/blending in the bowl area under the exhaust valve can reap some gains as far as exhaust flow is concerned.The ports themselves are huge to begin with so dont monkey with them you could screw up the scavenge/reversion characteristics which are pretty good for a street head.Intake side do the same thing.As far as the port is concerned,clean up the rough edges and port match to the intake.The valves could stand a good 3 or 4 angle grind on them.You could go larger but you could run into problems with valve shrouding and quench area interferance if you go too big.The 2-v heads have a nice tight chamber that you really dont want to make smaller so dont mill them unless you really have too.A good surfacing should be all you need.Make sure your cam selection takes advantage of the heads ability to breathe and you should be in good shape.If you are going to go all out,Put a good rocker set up on it that will take the abuse.The stock pedestal set up is a big limitation when you increase cam size/valve size.In nascar these motors regularly see 8000 to 9000 rpm so building a top end screamer is doable it just comes down to how much you want to spend.Hope this helps,Good luck.  


Power is bliss Torque devine

 
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