Is Real Street Dead?

Is the pro-touring deal done? Is the do every thing car a thing of the past? Has the production car bar been raised so high that no one wants to play? (see Z07, Ford GT, 600hp Viper) I don't think so but the hordes clamoring for this kind of event seem to have EVAPORATED.

I hope Car Craft does it again and I hope I have a shot after 2005's disappointment. I've heard rumors of a pro-touring smack down amongst the pro-built royalty. Maybe they'll let a few of the regular guys play?

Is anybody listening?  

I still like it...a car that can do everything is a lot more impressive than one that only goes in a straight line.

I liked that the RSE car that won last time I looked could actually out-stop a Ferrari.  

I like when CC does RSE...then does features on all the cars used...thats fun to read for me.

I think the problem is some show car guys have given pro-touring a bad rap...by putting on massive wheels (I don't mean a 17 or 18 inch wheel...i'm talking about the 20's and 22's that people put on there) and tires that wont grip in a straight line or on curves...and drive trains that are all show and no go.  Cars that are actually built to handle and stop are cool.  My Cutlass will eventually...but it'll always ride on 15" rally's.

I'd like to see more regular rides in there...last time had cars that seemed a bit too expensive to build...like the AMX with the Corvette drivetrain and ABS...thats a bit excessive for Car Craft...perfect for Hot Rod though.  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

The Cutlass sounds cool. I thought the AMX was awesome, just well beyond my abilites as a car crafter. I'd like to see CC do it again, but they'll need to hear from lots of folks who want to read about RSE type cars.  

Thanks!

I thought the AMX was cool...I and appreciate the amount of work and engineering done to it.  I just think that Car Craft is more oriented towards the less expensive crowd.  Course...maybe the guy did do it himself on the cheap...I can't say for sure.  If he did, I wanna know how.

But I'd love to see another RSE.  
68 Olds Cutlass ~ 350 Rocket
85 Delta 88 ~ 425 Rocket
02 Silverado 4X4 ~ 5.3L

imo pro touring is the best thing to ever happen to the car seen. i for one would want a car thats capable of doing it all. pro street always made me wonder what you would do if you had to take a corner over 5 mph. great cars, but the quater mile only look gets old in real life situations

there's nothing like the site of a muscle car tearing up an auto cross event. there's so many upgrades to brakes and suspension that can be done, junkyard or with new aftermarket parts. put in a revy small block and scare the local bmw's etc..  

RSE ought to be dead, unless CC wants to make it more of a "Drag Week"-style open event.  

Anyone with the entry fee should be allowed to show up, get teched,  and then run a  series of qualifying events (drag, chassis dyno,  autocross, slalom and a "no touch" "traffic jam" street cruise (like the Pump Gas Drags)).  

Then CC could talley the scores and pick a few finalists for closer judging and testing (open track, highway cruise with a CC editor, fuel economy, car show judging, insurance appraisal (so CC can calculate a  Bang-for-the-buck handicap factor) etc.

This could be as good as an "American Idol" competition for street cars . . . .  
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460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
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October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
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"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

Fun idea.  I would love to see Car Craft have events to compete with Hot Rod (strange to compete with a same-owner publication but I bet it would work).  

CC's new "Street Machine of the Year" competition is close to fixing the problems with the apparently-dead Real Street Eliminator.  
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460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
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October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
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"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

I would like to see some cars competing that the average guy could afford!!! I dont know who CC is trying to gear itself towards but I dont know anyone from my hometown that can afford to buy a new Shelby GT 500 let alone pull the motor right away and drop another 20 grand into it!! You guys have surely gotten away from the common car crafter and now cater to the guy without budgets and mortgages to worry about!!! Try doing a story about real hometown car builders that make power with affordable parts.  

Maybe like that other mag on the shelves , they should have a dollar limit on what can be spent. Let Hot Rod have those garage queens.  

I would like to see a more moderate version of this all round performance contest.  The majority of CC reader's are never going to own anything like these off the wall cars.  We don't have the budgets and we don't have the time.  I think the tests should remain the same but the qualifying criteria should be limit the cars as follows:  less than some budget amount, (perhaps less than $30,000 invested).  The cars should be driven regularly - the owners should attest to driving them at least an average of 5,000 miles a year.  And fuel economy should be part of the contest, since were looking for driven cars and also since that is becoming an issue for car enthusiasts.  When I read CC I'm looking for ideas not out of reach dreams.

Instead of Pro-touring - it should be Practical-touring.  I love to look at my '67 LeMans but I enjoy it the most from behind the steering wheel.  I have added power steering, and a/c.  I set up the suspension and then detuned it slightly because the stiffness was irritating me.  Let's face it, I spend more time driving to work than on the skid pad.  So now I have a good balance.

In my mind that is the main difference between CC & HR.  CC is geared a more toward backyard mechanics like the majority of us are.  At the same time, we are all dreamers and have lots of ideas, which is why we see wild cars like the AMX.  I think those cars should stay in CC but in limited quantity.  I am more interested in the roughed up car that was bought cheap and gradually evolved into a daily driver or a respectable hot rod.  I really liked the Rambler that we've seen over the past year or so.  In fact in my mind, that was the epitome of the ideal CC cover car.  

I loved the RSE competition. But the sad fact is that if you want to compete on that level it will take money. There's just no way around it. My car has been built around the so-called “pro-touring” concept and I can tell you that between the suspension, braking, drivetrain, and engine mods there’s probably around 23K invested already... and I’m still about 150 horses shy of being competitive. I probably need to spend another 5 or 6 grand in the engine compartment. Then you have to consider travel, food and lodging for the RSE event. You’re probably looking at over $500 just to show up depending on how far you have to travel or if you trailer your car (which isn’t “real” street if ya ask me). If you look at most of the “finished” feature cars in the magazine that were “home” built they have around 30K or more in their cars.

I guess the point is the magazine is limited to the best of the best because they’re limited to the top 8 or so cars in their readership. Nobody is interested in seeing Joe-blows claptrap piece of crap competing in a RSE competition. I want to see the best cars in the RSE because it gives me something to strive for. If you want an RSE contender, start competing at the grassroots level in your local autocrosses and at your local dragstrip. Go have some fun and you’ll find out soon enough whether you’re ready for RSE or not

I just thought I'd add that I like djvpontiac's idea of "practical-touring". I drive mine to work every day and put around 8000 miles a year on it. It aint "real" unless it's driven regularly! You can check out mine if you click my screen name and go to my garage  

"Nobody is interested in seeing Joe-blows claptrap piece of crap competing in a RSE competition."

Really?

But thenGrassroots Motorsports Magazine has made its name, in part, on its annual "$200x Challenge, limited to vehicles costing no more to construct than one dollar for each calendar year.

And "24 Hours of Lemons" events are now a nationwide phenomenon.

So, it would seem that some folks would like to read about competition events with real-world "Joe Lunchbox" budgets.

If CC doesn't factor build costs or appraised value into RSE, then it should have a class structure that segregates the big-budget builds from more bolt-on stuff.

And RSE will always be "bogus" as long as CC doesn't have an open qualifier. Even Pinks All-Out lets everyone who shows and passes tech run a couple of passes before the finalists are picked. RSE is also a "joke" if it doesn't include a drag strip pass in the scoring. (Autocross, drag strip, chassis dyno, brake test, skid pad, and "ride and drive" ought to be the absolute minimum tests for RSE finalists)

 It aint "real" unless it's driven regularly!

However, considering that about the only affordable and practical way to insure a built street machine for its true replacement cost is with a collector insurance policy (most all of which limit "daily driver" use), then this criterion is not very practical.

Better criteria of "realness" are:

1. Will it pass a state safety inspection?
2. Will it pass an emissions inspection (if applicable)?
3. Is it roadworthy enough for the Hot Rod Power Tour (TM) or Hot Rod Drag Week(TM)?
4. Will it make it over ordinary speed bumps and into/out of driveways without damage or drama?
5. Is it equipped with "bad weather" equipment (treaded tires, working windshield wipers, defroster)
6. Can it run at least 100 miles without breaking down or stopping for fuel?
7. Is it able to be secured enough to leave unattended in a Wal-Mart parking lot?  
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460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
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October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad

I would be happy if the scean went back to where it started, us in our sheds building our own interpretation of a car.  Eg: why can't a tubbed 15" wide tyre rear have a 6-8" front tyre?, why must we use 4" front ?, why can't I put leather heated recaros in with walnut dash (jaguar..bmw) on pro st car?

Does a pro streeter have to have a big motor, why not a mild injected motor, or even a powerful electric motor! We should just build what we want and not conform to any style, we should do our own style... Eg: 32 ford with a electic motor...

Electric motors are cheeper than petrol for the same hp ( and probly more practicle than a big cammed or blown motor on the street!)

This is about real st? And the future?!  

Donald, you make valid points as to the freedom to build whatever you want (within reason, of course . . .

. . .although I'm still thinking that an environmentalist-poster-child Prius converted (butchered)into a wicked 21st Century interpretation of a skyscraping gasser and augmeted with a hydrogen peroxide auxillary rocket motor(for street use!) might appear unreasonable (but a fun jab in the eyes of the green bureaucrats who want to snuff out hot rodding. . .)

However, if CC doesn't want RSE/CCSMOTY to devolve into a competition of trailered, tube-framed NHRA Pro Stocks and IHRA Pro Modifieds with license plates (as much of "heads up" racing of so-called "street" cars has become in the U.S.A.), then CC will have to have some standards aimed at testing the "realness" or "streetability" of the competitors.

BTW, I sincerely hope that someone develops an affordable aftermarket "pancake" electric motor, controller and high-density lithium-ion battery pack that can be retrofitted in series to big-block V8 muscle cars. (i.e. something along the lines of this fitted between the IC engine/clutch and the transmission)  That way we can:

(a) Balance the inherent fun of street-driven mountain motors with environmental pressures and commuter-friendly practicality;
(b) Not have to ride the clutch so much in stop-and-go traffic;
(c) Extend the range and reduce operational costs of our traditional muscle during the 95% of the time when 50 h.p. or less is enough to roll (or when we want to run in "stealth mode" for a lower profile);
(d) Preserve the option of internal combustion sounds and fury for cruise night profiling and "match ups." (Pure electric power is just too silent, souless and sanitary for cruising, "throwin' Revs," and other displays of "muscle.")
(e) Still run wild big block turbo cars (also fitted with cylinder deactivation, auxillary alcohol fuel systems, and other power-density/efficiency increasing tricks) as daily drivers,  even if pump gas skyrockets again in price (which is bound to happen if "cap and trade" becomes law)
(f) Show the techno-geeks, Consumer Reports readers, and the arrogant "pocket protector" set what a REAL, HE-MAN HYBRID ELECTRIC CAR IS LIKE!

Given the current international political climate, some electrication of our muscle cars is inevitable (if not, then we're going to be learning how to build diesels, Weed-Wacker mini-motors and ricey FWD "sport compacts" (gag)).  I just hope electrification is compatible with traditional RWD V8 Car Crafting.  
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460_BBF_Turbo-in-CC (formerly Dr511scj) "This guy has no life other than posting endlessly on carcraft.com." -- Car Craft, July 2005
-------
October 1, 2003: " I'm thinking a couple of...turbos, blowing through an old Powerstroke intercooler...on a Super Cobra Jet-head 460 would be mad cheap and make sick power."
-------
"I have no problem with your...talking to several versions of yourself...or pointing out our failure to do a turbo story ...." --Douglas "CC/Rambler" Glad